"As we navigate the post-COVID landscape, the need for intentionally empathetic leadership has never been clearer.."Neal and I delve into the profound impact of empathy on cultivating thriving workplace cultures and how we can scale this skill, particularly at more senior levels of the organisation.Empathy is often referred to as a 'soft skill' but is actually one of the hardest to enact and is more than a soft skill—it’s a strategic advantage. Executives and leaders who embrace empathetic practices are witnessing tangible benefits in business metrics, marketing, and branding. We discuss debunking common myths about leadership and collaboration in organisations and conclude that it’s time to challenge the status quo and embrace the paradigm shift. Engaging in courageous conversations, addressing conflicts with sensitivity, and creating a shared vision through empathetic confrontation can be powerful and strategic tools for organisational transformation.Neal shares his experience, insights and research from his book 'the E suite' and from his operational daily life as CEO of Cybercore Technologies. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      The shift in work-life balance during Covid saw people and empathetic leadership come first as opposed to empathy being considered a soft skill and not representative of ‘strong’ leadership.-      Executive leaders must seek to apply empathy and openness by understanding context and emotional states and making decisions based on this – it is not about ‘niceness’ and should be reframed as relationship building.-      The concept of business(-focused) empathy is about understanding the people you work with and using it as a tool to help with decision-making, e.g. how to deal with a diseased tree branch that impacts the tree as a whole.-      Strategically impactful decisions for a business involve the deliberate and intentional use of empathy as a leadership skill and lever - empathetic confrontation is linked to collective vision and organisational transformation.-      The most impactful transformations come from a place of safety and understanding the context so that transformation is not combative but involves all parties to solve a common problem.-      Create unity, not homogeneity by creating a level of trust - intense conversations in a trusted and safe environment can be very productive and senior leaders can create the conditions for empathetic discussion by saying transparently what is going on, inviting people to talk to them and creating psychological safety.-      Empathy is not always the solution but personal agency can be leveraged using effective communication, for example, by meeting with people for a disclosed reason; not letting emotional states come into play; monitoring reactions; looking for underlying issues and finding constructive solutions.-      Post-Covid, there is more openness to empathy generally but still many generational differences in terms of what makes a workplace successful, although it is clear that people-first policies affect the bottom line.-      Talent managers have an opportunity to inform leaders of the impact of empathy using bare metrics (e.g. the cost of firing/hiring v. retraining) or demonstrating the proven ROI of empathy.-      Leaders must hold themselves and others accountable and practice empathy until they are conversant in it – if they lend their voice to the conversation, people are more disposed to talking.-      Transformation instigates fear, which thrives in quiet and...

"There can be kindness in telling the truth, and therefore providing a place from which to move forward.."A great conversation with Paru about being authentic, and defining our own meaning of success. Learning to trust one’s intuition is a skill that many overlook, and we discuss the very essence of authentic leadership, the art of self reflection and how to empower others as you stand boldly in who you are. Paru shares the trials and triumphs of tuning into that inner voice. It’s about looking back to move forward, reflecting on past experiences to navigate & create the future. This isn’t just about what works in business—it’s about what makes us human in our careers.Are you ready to lead with authenticity? Are you prepared to break the mould and champion honesty in your professional life? Paru generously shares her stories, her life experiences, her insights and her wisdom from working with C suite leaders across the globe. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Mission: seeing across multiple functions and profiles and speaking authentic truth in the corporate world - leaders must remain authentic and truth is important for stability.-      There can be kindness in telling the truth, thereby providing a place from which to move forward; many of us have a tendency to bury our heads in the sand instead.-      The ability to spot patterns and predict next moves led to an advisory role, offering help to avoid falling back into old patterns in order to overcome fear and learn how to manage hypervigilance.-      (Self-)reflection helps to prevent repetition of mistakes and sharing vulnerabilities builds trust - in short, being authentic saves time!-      Just as we must encourage introspection and think about who we are, the same also applies for clients - exercises can be for both professional and personal purposes, but the universal truth is that there are no shortcuts.-      Putting in the work brings epiphanies and results, which we can use as a mirror to reflect back, embracing tough lessons to grow and learn.-      Moving from hypervigilance to trusting (one’s own) intuition is where genius happens; we must relinquish that which we hold on to and hold up the mirror to ourselves instead of other people.-      Collating the data we derive from this will show us what happens when we follow our intuition and are ourselves – in the formula of ‘if you do x, I feel y, so I do z’, we can make choices.-      Legacy means the impact we have on the world by sharing personal lessons learned, learning to trust our judgement in others, and offering stories for people to take ingredients from to maybe apply to their own lives.-      How do we know when we have reached 100% (of ourselves)? It is a gradual process, and each challenge helps us dig deeper and find that bit more – we can’t really ever know if we are at 100%, as it is a constant journey.-      It is helpful to be direct with others, to give instructions and information and be who we are - we cannot rely on others to do things for us and need our own backup plan.-      We must find our authentic version of ourself by spending time alone, regularly checking in with who we are today; as we evolve, we are impacted by extraneous factors but once we find it, we must hang on to it!Find out more about Paru and her upcoming book here : https://www.paruradia.com/paru

"Role modelling is the most powerful way to influence people and cultures ..."In today’s rapidly changing business landscape, resilience has become a buzzword, but how do we move beyond buzzwords to action? Julian and I do a deep dive into the heart of organisational resilience, unpacking strategies that can help your teams to do more than just survive, we focus on building resilience through fostering well-being, growth, learning, and vulnerability. We discuss the transformative effect of creating a workplace where challenges are shared openly, and optimism is balanced with a healthy dose of realism.We also touch on the critical role vulnerability plays in team dynamics and how it ties back to character and attitude. We discuss the essence of authentic leadership and the importance of role modelling in catalysing and strengthening collective resilience. How can we create these conditions in a hybrid workplace ? How can we intentionally cultivate workplaces where people and teams can thrive ? Julian shares his research, experience, stories and insights from his ongoing work with leaders and teams.The main insights you'll get from this episode are : Thriving is the flipside of surviving – like a plant that thrives with the right food, soil, environment, water and sunlight, in an organisation this means people feel they can learn, grow, excel and make mistakes.It is an ambitious concept for organisations as constant high performance is unrealistic and can lead to a culture of toxic resilience, i.e. constant optimism, overachievement and ultimately burnout.The middle ground between thriving and surviving means being open about challenges; being real (with people); being optimistic, i.e. rooted in the now but with an eye on the future; and being realistic.Organisations should provide check-in times for teams and a comfortable environment in which to share – resilience must be operationalised and it can be developed and grown like a muscle (through discipline and practice).Given the diverse profiles in a team, it is important to scale the mindset and create collective resilience - having a mission lifts the team, gives energy from positive purpose, and offers a path forward with innovative solutions.There are processes to ‘reduce, regulate and repair’: scenario planning, iceberg drills, collaboration, mitigation ideas, debriefing through difficulties and successes, reflecting on lessons learned.Clear roles and responsibilities are required for collective understanding, as are discipline (i.e. a commitment with structure yet flexibility), consistency and messaging – the processes must serve the people, not the other way round.Authentic leadership improves team resilience through self-awareness, balanced processing, internal moral perspective, and openness and transparency – very important for interaction.Psychological safety is paramount and the responsibility of the leader, with self-awareness the most significant of all as it has the biggest impact on creating a resilient team.Hope and optimism are very good things to have in organisational constructs – leaders with hope retain staff, raise profits and have thriving teams with optimistic intentions for the future of both the organisation and the people.Role modelling is the most powerful way to influence people and cultures in terms of bringing in pessimists as it offers inspiration but not toxic positivity and grounds people in reality.Leaders must create conditions for people to thrive in a hybrid environment through connection and communication, e.g. virtual townhall meetings, in-person get-togethers (with social elements, not always work-based), and open-door policies (also via Zoom).Find out more about Julian and his work here :

"we always understand anything new in terms of what we already know.." Dave and I discuss the art of possibility and how we can change our thoughts and perceptions to allow ourselves to enter the gateways of what's possible. Ever wondered why visualising things is so powerful ? Ever challenged your beliefs about whether you can draw or not ? We discuss all this and more as Dave leads us through his philosophy of art and how it can contribute to helping us navigate this complex world we live and work in. We delve into RFID codes, generative AI, and their potentially transformative effects on education and employment, as well as how we can step out of our patterns to think differently - to shake up our habitual routines, embrace change, and take proactive steps toward growth and innovation. After all, the jobs of tomorrow may not even exist today, so staying ahead means staying adaptable, open minded and curious. So whether you’re a seasoned artist or someone who’s never thought of picking up a pencil for fun, consider this your personal invitation to explore the visual language within you and step away from autopilot and connect to the present moment. Who knows? It might just change the way you see the world—and the way the world sees you ! Dave shares his insights, teachings, experience and visuals from writing and working with artists, leaders and organisations across the globe . The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Humans are mostly on autopilot, which serves us when things are going well, but distracts us from the present moment and possibilities can only be seen in the present moment.-       Digital overloads and distracts us but ‘possibilitarians’ are acutely tuned in to the present moment and the opportunities that might arise; we cannot know what will happen and it is our limiting beliefs that hold us back.-       The School of the Possible is about a less structured approach, fostering and teaching creativity, i.e. imagining something and making it a reality. This cannot be taught in the conventional way in that there is no end goal per se, just a question and a direction.-       Such a school of exploration engenders a community of people focused on what is possible in their worlds and supporting each other as entrepreneurs - an exciting, scary and uncomfortable reality that holds the promise of adventure and learning.-       Organisations too must take risks to avoid becoming obsolete, as many people are now looking at alternatives to working in organisations - we must all find a way to make a living but nowadays we can create our own customers on our own terms.-       An unusual approach to teaching creativity in the form of visual(isation) aspects, e.g. using game-storming, as a way to bring people together, help them align on a problem, and draw a complex issue to make it clearer.-       This low-equipment approach is transformative, facilitating a real connection between body and mind – this allows a group to build something, change their interactions and actually see what is in other people’s heads.-       The resulting visible, shareable work results in innovation, makes abstract things more tangible and takes the information landscape from fuzzy to focused - images are a universal language and explore things for which there are no words (yet).-       Drawing is a conversation between what’s in your head and what’s on the piece of paper so it can be surprising – as a process it is intuitive as opposed to cognitive as our brains are pattern-finding...

" we are still so afraid of speaking up and showing our emotions in the workplace... "Mollie and I discuss emotional inclusion, what it means and how it can help to humanise the workplace. How do we operationlise the 'doing' and bust the more traditional but very present leadership myths held in workplaces about vulnerability, emotions and 'strong leadership' ?We explore the lagging advancement in tackling emotional wellness at work and the negative impacts this can have. The urgency for organisations to sincerely incorporate emotional inclusion by offering mental health support and educational workshops has never been more present. At organisational level, leaders must be the voices of change to overcome the dichotomy of split selves, i.e. home self and work self, and lead authentic campaigns to demonstrate the benefits of a more inclusive ecosystem.Mollie stresses the importance of a comprehensive approach to organisational emotional well-being and the benefits of understanding employees’ emotions as well as educating leaders and employees alike. How can senior leaders contribute to this role-modelling of countering existing leadership myths and bringing in new ways of thinking and talking about emotions at work? How can we move from reflection to action on this topic and ensure sustainable and welcome change in this area ? Mollie shares her research, experience and insights from working on Emotional inclusion and from working with leaders around the globe. The main insights you will get from this episode are : -       Emotional intelligence is about knowing how to navigate our own and others’ emotions, emotional inclusion is about providing a roadmap of how to put emotions/emotional intelligence into action (also at work).-       Company DE&I platforms rarely speak about the inclusion that is closest to humanity, i.e. ourselves. Emotions have a bad reputation, despite giving us purpose, creativity, and a sense of belonging, and are the gateway to spearheading productivity as a whole.-       There is still an intention/action gap around emotions: we wear masks and vulnerability is seen as a weakness – there is fear and stigma around speaking up given the risk of perceived unprofessionalism.-       At organisational level, leaders must be the voices of change to overcome the dichotomy of split selves, i.e. home self and work self, and lead authentic campaigns to demonstrate the benefits of a more inclusive ecosystem.-       HR must ensure that there are mental health policies in insurance schemes for employees, over and above basic medical care, as the wellbeing of employees directly affects a company’s bottom line.-       There is a big divide in leadership regarding mental health: leaders who talk about it but do little, and leaders who want to redefine what mental health within their organisation looks like and make changes, but it is still not enough.-       Organisations need to create sustainable mental health pillars, but they are difficult to implement; corporate leadership vulnerability must role model behaviour for psychological safety, leading to increased receptiveness, empathy, openness, and authentic ‘team-ness’.-       We must make inclusion systemic by educating around how inclusive and safe ecosystems boost productivity, and by truly acknowledging each other’s humanness – there has been little progress in emotional wellness since the industrial revolution!-       Covid was a game-changer in that people refuse to fit into an antiquated workplace model; employees want to see...

“ We need to be looking at how the risks are entangled - we can’t think about any of them singly… “Asha and I discuss the current meta-crisis, and the great uncertainty this holds : How can we influence the complex world we live in? What can we see from where we are? What levers do we have for action ? Life is no longer stable, and organisations are still seeking to be ‘robust’, i.e. stable in an unstable world, so different approaches are required to influence any of this - so what can we do ? We also unwrap complexity science, systems thinking and how complex adaptive systems (e.g. social groups, the stock market, generative AI) learn at the edge of chaos and discuss how we can have a stable economic system that can sustain, produce, and distribute what we need.Asha shares her thought leadership as well as her operational experience in what this means for organisations and leaders, from her work with leaders across the globe. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       How can we influence the complex world we live in? What can we see from where we are? The current meta-crisis involves two large, intertwined risks: exponential tech (AI, biotech) and our industrial economy and its impact on the biosphere (climate change).-       Both are causing great uncertainty and mean that life is no longer stable, and organisations are seeking to be ‘robust’, i.e. stable in an unstable world, a technocracy. Different approaches are required to influence any of this.-       The (various models of) complexity give rise to systems thinking and complexity thinking:•      Systems thinking looks for patterns and is non-linear - a system is made up of different components with a shared purpose whereby the collective effect is different from the individual effect.•      Complexity thinking looks at the unexpected, unpredictable and random results (produced by complex systems), which are by definition emergent, not controllable and potentially undesirable.-       Complexity science looks at how complex adaptive systems (e.g. social groups, the stock market, generative AI) learn at the edge of chaos and asks how we can have a stable economic system that can sustain, produce, and distribute what we need.-       The concept of a regenerative economy is very interesting, but is it viable and suitable for complex adaptive systems? Our current system is enabling us to flourish at the edge of chaos.-       We need to consider alternatives to globalisation and our current financial system - complexity economics offers answers (circular economy, an ‘adjacent possible’, doughnut economics) but we are not ready to embrace them.-       Geopolitical will is required for change; we are experimenting on a small scale (particularly post-pandemic) but it is still a new, fragmented field; regenerative economics must evolve to be accessible for ordinary people.-       Everyone has personal agency and organisations have a role to play, but how do we navigate the landscape and put in place methods to do so? We must define the purpose and how to measure it, whereby quantifying it easier than qualifying it.-       Value is always contextual and depends on what is needed. There must be the requisite meaning and culture within an organisation for it to make a contribution to something more regenerative. Covid made us do things we thought we wouldn’t due to constraints, which can be likened to a river flowing faster when it’s...

"Are we coming from deep curiosity... are we ready to challenge the norm and become a catalyst for change in our organisations?"Poornima and I had a rich and fun exchange on building powerful communities to create more inclusive environmentsIn a world that is increasingly diverse, the concepts of inclusion, powerful coalitions, and allyship are more relevant than ever before. Poormina isn’t just advocating for these principles; she’s calling for a revolution of active allyship. Given the move towards more networked and interconnected organisations - the need for communities of people collaborating for the greater good has never been more present. Poornima and I delve into the world of allyship through honest introspection and deep curiosity. We discuss the need to confront our biases and privileges - that often lurk unseen, and subtly undermine the very fabric of the systems we live and work in. Just like termites that silently damage a structure from within, these biases can erode the foundation of a healthy workplace. Dr. Luthra invites us to approach such discussions with curiosity rather than defensiveness. It’s not about pointing fingers but about recognizing that we all have blind spots that require attention and that we have both personal and collective agency to create these conditions differently. Poornima shares her stories, research and insights from her work with leaders across the globe as we look more closely at how we can make inclusion a reality for organisations and communities alike. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Allyship is about taking personal action within communities and networks – a lifelong process of building supporting relationships with people from underrepresented groups and with different intersectional identities.-       The opposite of active allyship is denial, e.g. the increasing proportion of people worldwide who are anti-inclusion; the majority of people are passive allies of DE&I, i.e. they believe in it but don’t know what to say or do to further the cause.-       The important shift is from passive to active; being a bystander is not an option given that there is much to address. Not speaking up is the same as doing nothing; choosing not to act makes us complicit in allowing discrimination to continue and we all have biases thanks to our brain!-       Seven behaviours characterise an active ally:•      deep curiosity (about our own intersectional identity)•      honest introspection (taking a deep dive into our biases)•      humble acknowledgement (understanding privilege and using it to lift others)•      empathetic engagement (confronting “termite” biases and microaggressions and their profound negative impact)•      authentic conversations (that are deeper, open and more nuanced – this requires psychological safety)•      vulnerable interactions (storytelling, making a difference)•      courageous responsibilities (accepting that we have to do more)-       Gaslighting is very widespread and can be defined as behaviour over time that belittles, discounts and/or invalidates people’s experiences. It is a strong term that requires careful use.-       Micro-gaslighting can be a one-off but you feel it - an active ally will create a safe space to talk about such experiences.-       The allyship comfort...

"Do we really have the right conversations in our teams ?"Tanvi and I delve into the different conversations that can enable and enhance a deeper, more effective collaboration at all levels of the organisation. We explore the concept of “Deep collaboration” within teams and organizations, revealing how understanding the roots of conflict can reshape the emotional landscape of the workplace. What does ‘being a team’ really mean? What creates collaboration? What does collaboration really mean? It is a very specific concept, transcending who we are as individuals, but has been dumbed down and has become a buzz word. Collaborative burnout and overload are common in matrix structures with multiple stakeholders and realigned business models, as people struggle to collaborate without putting the work in on the courageous conversations and more human aspects to build the inter-relational piece. We must begin by acknowledging failings and accepting that collaboration is inherently tough. Accepting our hypotheses and experimenting to see what works and starting again by asking curious questions to go deeper. If you are committed to creating a thriving work environment, listen to discover more about embracing the intricacies of group dynamics and leveraging them for the success and health of your organization. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Collaboration is a major lever for navigating the transition from hierarchy to interdependence for leaders to create flow in both teams and organisational systems.-       What does ‘being a team’ really mean? What creates collaboration? What does collaboration really mean? It is a very specific concept, transcending who we are as individuals, but has been dumbed down.-       The basic prerequisite is a collaboration infrastructure comprising tools, resources and talent, alongside meaning, contribution and community - there must be a balance between what are you giving and what are you getting - and conversations.-       The link between courageous conversations and the level of collaboration can be fast tracked using CART – clarity, accountability, resources, and trust.-       Divergent views of individuals within a company signals a lack of clarity; a blame culture signals a lack of accountability - flatter hierarchies require more clarity of accountability.-       Collaborative burnout and overload are common in matrix structures with multiple stakeholders and realigned business models – this requires support and shifting the ‘CART’.-       Five main conversations:·      Deep inspiration - a mountain with peaks of inspiration; a purpose-based conversation involving a collection of small moments of purpose that serve the larger purpose, connecting company and team purpose to close the loop.·      Deep learning - understanding each other’s worlds across silos in this age of polymaths and renaissance individuals - AI can connect the dots across disciplines and people must do this too.·      Deep friction - facing a waterfall and having the ability to quickly move in the right direction, navigating conflict in team.·      Deep strategising - the quality of strategy conversations and how they are translated into practice.·      Deep daring - looking at how we think about uncertainty, risk, resilience, failure, etc.·      Bonus...

" the best way to solving human problems at scale is to focus on what we CAN do, and make sure we are intentionally working to get there"Kate and I delve into the future world of tech, exploring trends and different technology and human enabled ways of meeting business objectives in today's world. When it comes to alignment, it is difficult to bring business, human and digital strands together, in particular in terms of big data and AI, and many organisations do not understand the strands well enough yet. We touch on responsible tech, bigger societal issues and the need to be clear and intentional about purpose and ethics in a world that is becoming more complex by the minute as technology connects us to everything in every way ! We must invest in building trust and repairing division, interacting with people in person, hearing and listening to others. Emerging tech brings with it enormous capacity and scale, but what do we want to scale? How do leaders and organisations answer this question with purpose and optimism, to bridge the digital/human gap intelligently ? Kate shares her research, insights and experience from her books and from working with leaders all over the globe. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       We have an ancient fear of tech taking over our lives/humanity, but it is really a means to meet business objectives; business leaders must align their objectives with human objectives and outcomes and use the alignment to build tech around them.-       When it comes to alignment, it is difficult to bring business, human and digital strands together, in particular in terms of big data and AI, and many organisations do not understand the strands well enough, e.g. C-suite human dynamics.-       Many leaders do not know how to act appropriately in the face of AI – when any deployment could be out of date within months – but it is far less about tech and far more about aligning the organisation, which will outlast any tech deployment.-       Transformation is not led by tech but by strategy based around alignment; it is about serving people well during transformation by having a strategy that begins with organisational purpose – this is a useful north star for organisations and ultimately a very human concept.-       What we do in business is driven by what we want to accomplish and what matters; innovation is what is going to matter and shows us what we need to do to get to a future we want – experimenting with new tech is good, but it should not lead anything.-       Tech for good and responsible tech are on the rise and have seen many different efforts, e.g. hackathons to create tools and systems to serve people, civic tech to help people; tech ethics looks at how businesses deploy tech in support of their products/services in a responsible way to avoid unintended consequences and harm to downstream communities.-       It is vital not to abandon ethical concerns as AI is on the rise and to align business objectives with responsible action. The UN’s sustainable development goals (SDG) can be used as a roadmap for a better, brighter future and to improve life for everyone on the planet.-       Responsible tech needs to become as important as DE&I but it is currently often just a talking point rather than an action plan, but it is at least the start of discourse. It is a challenging time for making big decisions in a changing technology landscape and we must consider the future for bankable foresights.-       Within organisations, there must be individual personal agency, speaking truth to

"There are two things that allow teams to be more resilient – clarity on goals and psychological safety"Marie-Hélène and I discuss the much debated topic of resilience in today's organisations, and what this means for how we lead - our teams, ourselves and our organisations. Resilience is something of a buzzword in today’s hustle culture and context is key to understanding it. We discuss the existing binary definitions of 'rubber band' resilience, and how we can shift to a more creative, deliberate and developmental form of resilience. However, this doesn't come without discipline, forethought and strategic planning. Marie Hélène leads us through her experience and research to help us reframe the concept of resilience, moving away from thinking it’s part of who we are. How can we develop this mental and emotional agility ? how can we prepare ourselves and other team leaders to shift their mindset from individual resilience to collective resilience and engage their teams to proactively prepare for adversity on the horizon ? Marie Hélène shares her research, mastery and experience from working with leaders around the globe to develop realistic, effective and strategic resilience plans. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Resilience is something of a buzzword in today’s hustle culture and context is key to understanding it. A consistent definition of resilience is the ability to go through adversity, learn from it and come out even stronger.-       It is not a personality trait and therefore we can influence and control it; if we do this, everything gets better – health, happiness, engagement, satisfaction, etc. – and it is an opportunity if presented to people in a way that makes sense.-       The idea is to help us reframe the concept of resilience, moving away from thinking it’s part of who we are; our inaction is often due to having to tick off a ‘checklist’ - we all have to do different things at different times.-       The quadrant of internal and external context (systems): in business, there is a lot of work on context and preparation (e.g. SWAT analysis) prior to a launch, and the same applies to building resilience – it begins the process of making changes, moving to acceptance to take advantage of where we have leverage and claiming personal agency to take action.-       Supply and demand exercise for resilience involves making two lists - demands in life and sources of supply – to provide honest visibility on your situation: Is it aligned with your values? Does it indicate where change is possible/desirable? Does it reveal blind spots?-       As we progress in our careers and lives, natural context becomes less supportive and eventually no amount of supply can match the level of demands – this is embodied by the glorification of hustle culture, to which teams also succumb.-       There are two things that allow teams to be more resilient – clarity on goal and psychological safety. Our mindset must shift from individual resilience to collective resilience and team leaders must engage their teams to proactively prepare for adversity on the horizon.-       Team resilience is only partially the responsibility of the team leader - we are all able to influence the team and therefore positively influence the resilience of the team to improve performance.-       Team language is important too, though, to ask how we learn from (our response to) a mistake and how we grow from it. Small actions make a big difference and every little...

"When we avoid failure, we also avoid discovery, innovation and accomplishment..."Such a fitting thought for the rich & fun discussion Amy and I had on failing intelligently and learning to thrive. Humans aren’t an exact science, and neither is failing - so how we can change the way we think, act and interact about failure - in organisations, in society and in our personal lives ?  We are all fallible human beings, with assumptions biases and emotions, so how can we reframe our mental models to harness this?In the world of innovation, the spoken mantra is "Fail fast" (and all the variations on this theme) yet everything is geared towards not failing. Leaders still default to ‘failure is not an option’ so then how can we normalise learning from failure ? What are the dangers of failing poorly, not speaking up and what implications will this have for organisations in a future where change is the only constant?We explore the different types of failure, how to be smarter in the way you fail, and the way you can set yourself and your organisation up to create a healthy culture of failure - essential in a fast moving world. Fearless organisations can learn from how systems fail and articulate this as a goal; using creative resilience, emotional regulation and choosing learning over knowing to strive for excellence and thrivingAmy generously shares her stories, research, insights and wisdom on this critical topic. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       The Right Kind of Wrong looks at learning from failure, essential in a fast-moving world. Most failures are not caused by mistakes, but by the undesired results of experiments in new territory – mistakes only occur when prior knowledge exists.-       Failures are divided into three categories:·      Intelligent failures of the kind scientists make as a result of thoughtful forays in pursuit of a goal·      Basic failures with a single cause, usually a mistake·      Complex failures, which are multicausal and due to multiple unfortunate factors (a single factor would have been fine)-       Failures are stepping stones to success and present a greater opportunity, and it is this reframing, alongside context, that are key. The reframing aspect starts with us overcoming our own confirmation biases.-       Context comprises different dimensions, such as the degree of uncertainty and the stakes. Under duress, individuals make mistakes, but teams rectify/compensate for mistakes and therefore perform well overall.-       Do better teams make fewer mistakes? Data shows that better teams had higher error rates but were more open to reporting them as a result of a good interpersonal climate (= psychological safety).-       It is possible to fail fast if the context is right – working fast to fail fast is cost-efficient and a fail fast mindset is good for reasonably low stakes and high uncertainty scenarios (e.g. entrepreneurs, inventors).-       The senior level of organisations tends to be based around fear with no context-appropriate language - leaders still default to ‘failure is not an option’ and ‘only perfection is welcome’, which ensure the absence of a speak-up culture and do not foster good performance.-       In turbulent times, innovation is more necessary than ever, and the messaging must therefore be about striving for excellence, being ambitious, and understanding chaos.-       Excellence in an uncertain world...

"There is a part in every customer journey where people need to interact with a human being .. "Tom and I discuss the human guided digital Customer journey and how this is evolving as technology evolves. Customers have endless choices when it comes to digital CX today: chatbots, knowledge bases, data bases, google searches etc and as technology moves on so quickly, we are left with this ever growing challenge of constantly bridging Digital and Human in a hybrid world.What different milestones need to be put in place to bridge the gap between digital and human ? Where do organisations need to pivot and rethink the way they craft their customer journeys ? Both upskilling in terms of strategy as well as the operational implications of a digital CX depend on the business model and the existing customer journey – people must be engaged at the design level so as to intentionally drive a conversation and overcome the silo mentality.Tom shares his experience, vision and insights with us from working with business across the globe on their CX digital strategies. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Successful organisations must constantly integrate the physical and digital aspects of their business, e.g. by building instruments for customer journeys that were hitherto non-existent, such as combining a website with a physical store and expert guidance in human form.-       The post-pandemic hybrid model comprises one team in two parts by bringing virtual and physical together - a digital CX must find ways to fill the gap left by digital, i.e. the human input. Leaders must realise that despite leaning into digital, people also want to speak to a human who can offer help/advice when it comes to decisions/complexities.-       Frustration comes from not being able to speak to a human (in CX, for instance) and have in-the-moment human guidance; optimized workflows enable an initial digital footprint to be followed by human experts to improve conversion rates.-       There are emotions attached to decisions, and human connection, even on video, deescalates a stressful process - technology can help us recognise points at which we should blend the channels.-       The gap between digital and human is often filled with fear, and leaders should seek to focus on the human aspects for customer service roles, i.e. the ability to both deliver empathy and problem-solve - customers are taken down an efficient digital path that improves outcomes through human hand-holding.-       There are three different approaches: DIY, do it for you, and do it with you - the latter bridges the gap, is scalable, improves loyalty/business and adds value; emerging technology will allow companies to dynamically create space for individualisation and personalisation.-       Generative AI will be disruptive to jobs but help access lower-hanging fruit; it will bring the agent much further forward in the CX journey and facilitate a human-guided digital CX, ultimately enabling humans to do higher-value jobs.-       The fear around AI comes from the perceived possibility of it running amok - it is vital therefore that it is kept in check and used only when and where appropriate in order to help shift between modalities and elevate the conversation.-       Both upskilling in terms of strategy as well as the operational implications of a digital CX depend on the business model and the existing customer journey – people must be engaged at the design level so as to drive a conversation and overcome the silo...

"Humans should move from fear to curiosity about AI in a business setting and relinquish control in certain areas"A great conversation with Garik about AI strategy and what it means for businesses - how they can leverage AI for business outcomes and the value it can bring to people in the business. We delve into myths on what it can and cannot do, and how leaders can think about what AI means for them and their organisations. AI is based on explicit language to build up intelligence but is only as good as the data it is given; it acts like a type of mirror, giving impressions and reflections of the data fed into it. As with anything new, people fear the cutting edge but there will be lots of new opportunities and jobs in an AI world, and stepping over fear and doing it anyway is the path to creativity. Leaders should talk to people throughout the organisation to canvas opinion and start with ‘non-exotic’ use of AI to simply improve the lives of employees. A culture of adoption for AI can be scaled by channelling or eliminating fear to enhance the human mind because we must be at our best/most creative to deal with AI technology.Garik shares his insights, thought leadership and experience on the subject of AI and the human dimension of technology. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       ‘Programming is teaching the dumbest thing in the world how to be smart’ (Gabe Newell). AI is based on explicit language to build up intelligence but is only as good as the data it is given; it acts like a type of mirror, giving impressions and reflections of the data fed into it.-       Data is the starting point, but AI strategies involve scientific, engineering, regulatory, and business breakthroughs / cycles - democratising intelligence offers massive opportunities for entrepreneurs to take advantage of technology.-       Well-built systems with added AI will offer huge increases in productivity and there is a trend towards mass personalisation/customisation – lots of new tools are being rolled out with seismic effect.-       At present, AI is like a newly qualified, well-educated, hard-working personal assistant; a brainstorming partner and creative asset that only works with very clear inputs and outputs and does not fare well with lack of context.-       The better questions we ask, the better answers we will get, and great expertise is required to ask great questions – it is not about indiscriminate learning.-       Humans should move from fear to curiosity about AI in a business setting and relinquish control in certain areas – this requires intention and discipline about what we input.-       Open source is very cheap as a means to test the best output - there is an understandable fear of sharing information, but the open AI API does not use your data as training data; it does not record data and can be viewed more as an AI playground for personal use.-       Practical AI is embedded in business by building a culture of adoption, generating excitement and creating a story – not to replace humans but to enhance them. Custom instructions and internal databases can be created to meet company-specific requirements – they can be tested first and then used without requiring human input.-       Up-/side-skilling in terms of an adoption culture must be on a case-by-case basis – it is difficult to add AI to blue collar work (cf. Moravec’s paradox). And reality is infinitely complex and therefore the human brain takes shortcuts - abstract thoughts only work in a vacuum, not in the real...

"the biggest challenge of all is the mindset shift...we need to be doing this 'with' people not 'for' people. "A fun conversation with Jim and David about how to create and lead healthy ecosystems .What does this mean ? How do you create a system where people and business can flourish ? How can we make sure that we retain our competitive advantage, or should it be collaborative advantage ? Healthy ecosystems must combine strategy and leadership in an emergent approach to prioritise and maximise resources in order to flourish – we can only solve critical issues in the world and make progress by collaborating. Is collaborative advantage a better lever for what keeps systems healthy and competitive in today's world and how do we navigate this landscape in terms of strategy and leadership ? We discuss how the measurement of value could be seen through a different lens and what it takes for companies to develop interdependent leadership to allow for a more fluid model of business operations and partner relationships where people and business can flourish.Jim and David generously share their insights, research and experience on this critical topic for businesses and leaders across the globe. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Healthy ecosystems must combine strategy and leadership in an ‘anti-business school approach’ to prioritise and maximise resources in order to flourish – we can only solve critical issues in the world and make progress by collaborating.-       To create and lead a strategy for sound ecosystems requires a mindset shift from competitive advantage to collaborative advantage – we must find the right partners who contribute in the right way so that we can create something sustainable together.-       We must think more expansively - organisations must recognise that we are better off if we interact; we have to ask questions and talk to people if we are to be viable, resilient and sustainable.-       Reimagining the entire value chain means asking: what does success look like for everybody? What does everyone contribute? How is it managed and led? Interdependence is major: not a hub-and-spoke model but concentric circles with a shift to interdependent leadership.-       TVG (total value generated) asks who the key stakeholders are and how they define value, and measures experience and output objectively; it is about relationships and the value they generate; it identifies ecosystem partners and focuses on their health.-       Research reveals three crucial factors for successful relationships: reciprocity (best interests at heart on both sides), trust (built slowly over time), and frequency (how often do we interact and is it often enough) - we must change the narrative to measure critical factors for the system as a whole.-       Flourishing is about holistic human wellbeing (physical, mental, social, spiritual, etc.) and is influenced globally by organisational strategy and public health, which should consider all dimensions to create inclusive systems for healthy ecosystems.-       Competitive advantage in a healthy ecosystem is measured by looking at every player in the value chain with a unique value proposition that is enhanced by the other players, e.g. sustainability, triple bottom line, both profitable and prosperous.-       Continued viability: involves the competitive intensity of the local supply chain and the collaborative intensity of capacity; depends on healthy collaborators (in the supply chain); and builds a collaborative infrastructure that leads to...

"you always have choice - choose to be an agent of change in your life, to build your own castle, to devise your own methods, and to think intentionally about your legacy..."Rick and I have a fun conversation that takes us through English castles, into manufacturing and lean methodologies and circling back through our inner game as leaders in a Business as UnUsual world. What do we need to navigate this complex world and motivate our people ? What tools and approaches work for you as a leader ? how do you ensure that you remain an agent of change in creating your future ? Rick shares his insight and experience as well as the main concepts in his new book on leadership, culture and business in the post COVID world. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       UnUsual is to be understood as the ‘new normal’ post-pandemic and stems from the author’s belief that everyone has the potential to be an architect of change, a catalyst in an ever-changing world.-       Eclectic leadership blends various theories, styles and approaches with multiple perspectives from different industries; eclectic leaders are not bound by one model and can adapt to different strategies, demonstrate flexibility, and leverage the strengths of different types of leadership by choosing the most effective tool from a large toolbox.-       The book uses a castle as a metaphor as it is a structure that everyone can imagine, but differently. The British take of ‘an Englishman’s home is his castle’ stands for home, safety, refuge, strong foundations, nobility, worthiness, honour, respect, legacy, community and impact.-       The book talks about 8 structures within the castle: the stronghold/inner keep, which has 4 towers that support each other: the tower of purpose (values, legacy, life goals, north star); the tower of life force (how you manage your HERBS – health, energy, rest, balance and stress); the tower of mind (how you show up, habits, behaviours, kaizen); and the tower of self (self-confidence, self-efficacy, self-worth, self-motivation).-       The dungeon of the castle represents coaching, which often inflicts pain to bring about growth and is about stretching and going beyond our comfort zone, being on the rack – and this requires trust.-       The bailey is expandable and consists of 3 buildings: the great hall (community, culture, leadership); the stables (looking forward, searching for satisfaction, transforming); and the treasury (finances, income, net worth).-       The inner keep formula is ‘the know and the go’. The know relates to self-confidence (knowing and trusting in yourself), self-efficacy (believing in your own ability to succeed) and self-worth (believing you are worthy of success and bring value to the world). The go relates to self-motivation, as motivation is the reason humans do things.-       Kaizen in the tower of the mind is about lifelong learning and a growth mindset. Nothing is perfect so we must embrace never-ending improvement of ourselves and all we do - be curious, ask why and reflect to reconsider, thereby embracing an infinite mindset.-       Life is about thinking well, feeling well and doing well. Life force is not in endless supply, and it requires a holistic approach to keep the different elements in balance to prevent stress. A good place to start is with tower of life force to find habits to strengthen and improve it.-       The notion of pivoting in uncertain times requires ‘alternative’ VUCA leadership: overcoming...

" bringing new digital tech in that genuinely solves a real problem people have is often the easiest part of the change management in digital transformation "Fun conversation with Adam exploring the challenges and opportunities of scaling digital and scaling transformation in different industries. We delve into the legacy systems, the people legacy systems and the power of creating the model that works for you. How can we anticipate corporate antibodies to innovation and change ? How can we use the disruptive people already in the organisation with a huge appetite for change and a thorough understanding of the existing system ? What levers do we have and how can we use what digital enables more intentionally ? Innovation can bring people together and overcome fierce tribal rivalries in silos, and digital technology can provide powerful solutions to real problems and minimise disruption through its creative use.Adam shares his insights and experience from working in technology and transformation in organisations of different sizes across Europe and the US. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       AI scale-up to transform the rail industry using next-generation digital technologies to retrofit the rail ecosystem and solve difficult technical and change management problems (e.g. maintenance, operation, dealing with failure).-       As a global necessity, the legacy rail network system and legacy people systems must be reinvented by getting close to the people on the ground (e.g. the engineer responsible for track maintenance) in order to get close to the transformational opportunities.-       Innovation can bring people together and overcome fierce tribal rivalries in silos - digital technology can provide powerful solutions to real problems and minimise disruption through its creative use.-       There is often excitement around creative spaces as they are free of accountability and allow free thinking – good solutions create a good culture, but different organisations need different approaches.-       Transformation requires a team effort in which structures are less rigid, the right mentality is cultivated, and small matters are overcome (e.g. rivalries) in the face of the bigger picture through optimism, accountability and team building.-       It is important to attract and retain talent and the personal agency and accountability of a small company offers a different working environment as a mission-driven, transformational organisation – personal joy and fulfilment sustains people.-       KONUS labs are a disruptive, innovation structure that ‘positively contaminate’ but need to be integrated in the company; however rejoining the ‘mother ship’ is often messy and involves the antibodies of two different cultures.-       Experiments alienate the larger organisation and the innovation team cannot scale the impact of what they do – ‘valley of death’ problem, leading to hostility to the work; transformation and performance must be simultaneous.-       Digital upskilling for hard skills means learning from the best in order to have an impact on the world and building to scale from the outset - upskilling means fusing different ways of working.-       Soft skills require more upskilling in the digital era given that the way we work is so different and demands collaboration, agility, learning, unlearning and relearning together with an understanding of the business and the processes (ultimately bringing about culture...

"Crisis can be the catalyst but not the reason for sustained change ... "Tim and I explore the nature of change, the link with innovation and the effect of COVID on the workplace. We particularly explore the people side of change and delve into what happens when we look at the re-humanisation of the workplace. What skills are needed ? What place will technology have ? and how will we constantly adjust to continuous change. Ai brings its own disruption to change management and the speed of change, at 3 different levels of disruption: to jobs, organisations, and industry.Change success is accessible with and through people, and the future of change management will see more emphasis on the human side of change (most important asset) and intentionally integrating change management and an understanding of the human dimension of change into the strategy and culture of an organisation.Tim shares his research, insights and experience from working with change and innovation for several decades. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       The post-COVID era is about the people side of change, with an infusion of humanity into organisations and a re-recognition of the value of each person: the human side is the biggest identified gap between successful and unsuccessful change projects.-       The aftermath of COVID is impacting organisations, where change is happening, bringing new capabilities, new expectations and new skillsets, which have to be incorporated.-       According to statistician George E P Box, ‘all models are wrong, but some are useful’ - change management models are continually evolving based on research and there must be curiosity about what moving parts fit together.-       Leadership is about creating the conditions for change to succeed on both the release level and the initiative level: ADKAR describes the technical side and change management looks at the people side in the pursuit of sustainable change.-       The future of change management will see more emphasis on the human side of change (most important asset) and integrating change management into the strategy and culture of an organisation.-       Prosci’s ‘we over me’ is a mindset shift and impact value to manage the human reaction to change - learning is change and change is learning, an extension of the growth mindset, creating learning paths and orientating towards skills/capabilities beyond job descriptions.   -       Crisis can be the catalyst but not the reason for sustained change - regression occurs as a natural human tendency and there must be true intention to keep innovations in place.-       Intentionality is required from the top otherwise implementation becomes problematic in practice as sponsors are going through change themselves; a symbiotic relationship is required: SponsorHave : Influence, authority, resources, long-term viewDon’t have : Time, pulse of people (operational eyes and ears), expertise re human systemsCatalystHave : Focus on people, expertise and experience in human systems, tools/methodologies for peopleDon’t have : Resources, authority, organisational influence-       Business as usual and innovation are two (operating) systems involving the same individuals helping an organisation be what they want to be; they should be in alignment with each other to converge with a shared (future)...

"Fear : False Evidence Appearing Real... "How does this dictate the way we talk to ourselves ? What else determines how we show up ? How can we regain confidence in who we are and who we were meant to be ? Clarissa walks us through her regime for self esteem and how we can manage our habits and mental models to transform the way we feel about ourselves. Is what we think real ? How do we step away from our thoughts and reframe them differently ? Self-esteem doesn’t discriminate; it is everything you are, everything you think and every relationship you have (including with yourself) and must be worked on continuously. Clarissa's book offers an action plan and tells stories to encourage readers to look in the mirror for a life-changing experience and be their own best advocate.How can we build a model of sustainable change ? How can we use the 4 pillars of self esteem to constantly re-iterate on what we have learnt ? How can we set ourselves up for success in the future ? Clarissa shares her stories, insights and approach for building a 'self esteem' muscle for our own good and for the greater good. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Self-esteem doesn’t discriminate; it is everything you are, everything you think and every relationship you have (including with yourself) and must be worked on continuously.-       Personal development is about having the tools in the shed to use when you need them – when the storm strikes, it does not uproot your tree even though you may lose a branch.-       Self-help (not shelf-help!) is big business because there is a huge need (to feel seen, heard, valued and worthy).-       The regime is one for action: to get on right path for your life and be the best version of yourself, maybe by taking the HIGH (honesty, integrity, gratitude and honour) road.-       The book offers an action plan and tells stories to encourage readers to look in the mirror for a life-changing experience and be their own best advocate.-       It espouses the power of affirmations: being responsible for creating our own purpose, vision mission and goals; for presenting well; for showing up; for acknowledging and improving our imperfections; for working to overcome our fears.-       Helping people move from ‘encowerment’ to empowerment, to move on, face everything and rise – having a regime keeps you moving forward.-       4 pillars of self-esteem: look good (outside), feel good (inside – diet exercise, nutrition), be good (relationships, leadership, finances), greater good (volunteering, community).-       Need 5 new gratitude items every day to drive motivation and inspiration.-       Recommended actions:·      catch the negative self-talk·      drive out the daily demons·      support and reparent yourself·      go through the pain-       You are lucky to be you so love yourself!Find out more about Clarissa and her work here : https://www.clarissaburt.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/clarissaburt/

" people are people : they make mistakes, they're social animals - why and when do they cooperate, what do they think is fair and unfair... ? Frederic and I delve into the world of organisational design and behavioural economics, looking at what type of structures and relationships we need to build more agile, more interconnected and more effective organisations. Organisational fairness requires voice and choice and we look at how this human need for fairness plays out in more fluid organisational structures. How can we use behavioural economics to help organisations become flatter in structure and understand why & when people cooperate; how they react to fairness & unfairness ? How leaders build trust and how they can incentivise their people in a different structure ? We also explore the different leadership skills in conjunction with inter-relational fairness and the dynamics of hierarchy: ‘hierarchy-less’ does not exist, but it is more about decision-making structures, procedures, incentives and mindset.Frederic shares his experience, research, insights and his upcoming programme for executives on building more agile, flexible and interconnected organisations. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Using behavioural economics to help organisations become flatter and understand why/when people cooperate; how they react to fairness/unfairness; how they can build trust/trustworthiness; and how they can incentivise their people.-       The human dimension of digital transformation is not an exact science but feeds into the need for connection - executive education must be about navigating this complex landscape.-       Executives need to know how to avoid biases and fallacies; understand team dynamics and unfair treatment in the workplace; be aware of quiet quitting and how to create more purpose, trust and the right culture.-       Flat, Fluid and Flexible looks at inter-relational fairness and the dynamics of hierarchy: ‘hierarchy-less’ does not exist, but it is more about decision-making structures, procedures, incentives and mindset.-       Dominant hierarchy (boss/subordinates with varying degrees of coercion) is out of place nowadays (e.g. in family life and politics) – we now want participation and democracy; flatness is about non-domination and rendering organisations leaderful not leaderless.-       Leaders are roles, not people, that are sometimes needed and sometimes not - a mutual, voluntary and temporary authority, giving rise to shared and emergent leadership.-       Holacracy requires buying into the system of rules wholesale, which in turn requires structure in the system - leaders must understand this structure.-       Nature offers many examples of how structures adapt to evolve – organisations must dispel the myth that hierarchy is needed for progress and the management of complex procedures.-       In nature, evolution is leaderless and a collective endeavour; removing a rigid dominance hierarchy permits variation and consent of the masses, which in turn gives rise to the spirit of emergent leadership (e.g. the queen bee in a colony).-       A good example is the Pando clonal (i.e. self-similar) tree colony – the largest living organism on Earth – which shares roots and is polycentric in structure: highly durable, scalable, cooperative, adaptable and evolutionarily successful.-       Trust plays a major role in the power dynamics of a flat hierarchy: game theory and the...

"we are very very small but we are profoundly capable of very big things..."Chris and I delve into the power of purpose and being part of something bigger than us, starting with Stephen Hawkins quote that figures on the Very Big Things website. We discuss what drives motivation and the secret sauce to successful innovation and scaling operations in today's competitive digital environment. We look at how can we find and retain talent in such competitive markets, how can we create a team that works and how we can successfully scale both operations and impact. How can we make sure that people don't lose sight of their north star and that we are positively impacting society ? Chris shares his stories, insights and experience of founding and scaling Very Big Things and working with diverse leaders around the globe. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -       Technical innovation and excellence company whose name serves as both inspiration and motivation (from Stephen Hawkins: “We are very very small, but we are profoundly capable of very big things”).-       There is no limit to growing despite being small and it is a choice to have a profound impact or not, regardless of the size of the company; they have lofty ambitions to be the best at what they do.-       A VC background elucidates that execution strategies are often the roadblock as building good teams that work well together takes too long (from an investment viewpoint) - Very Big Things provides the tech and fills a gap in the agency market.-       The aim is to help people bring their vision to life quickly, collaboratively and integratively; the company communicates its purpose to prospective clients/hires to show that product-led transformation and growth is tangible.-       When scaling, it is important to maintain both a consistent cycle of checking in (re. direction and realignment/recentring), as well as a balance between focus on the mission and the need for profitability.-       The human experience is very important when building and elevating digital brands; clients are drawn organically to Very Big Things because they want to be special and stand out – the retention of people and clients ultimately saves money and builds deeper relationships.-       Social impact is important: quality work leads to positive word of mouth and a narrow focus leads to a happy team, happy clients and exceptional work - the route to success must provide value and connect with the human being, offering direct short-term impact as well as large-term gain.-       The impact of generative AI on the tech world lies in the true power of APIs, beyond chat prompts, whereby internal tech systems talk with the AI instead of employees - having a custom system boosts efficiency drastically.-       Challenges associated with AI: teams must know how AI will affect them and what the company strategy is so as to remove (largely unfounded) panic. AI is good for inspiration but less good for branding so should be used selectively for certain functions only (e.g. HR).-       Impact of AI on the talent market: companies will be able to do more with their existing team (by removing the tasks no one wants to do) rather than having to hire new people - a 20% efficiency gain means 20% less cost for clients.-       Burnout can be due not to work, but to a lack of control and a lack of focus [Chris recommends focussing on no more than 3 big things at once] - if people see impact, they are...