Pastor Bill: [0:02] Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 95 of the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the modern Christian. I'm Pastor Bill in the big seat today, the big chair and I'm joined by Pastor Newms in the little chair, I disabled the video for bandwidth so I don't remember where you are you're right, right here on the video with me. He's the little head today and I'm the big head today because something came out this week and I was like okay, we need to talk about this and we really need to talk about this so we're going to talk about it. … Pastor Bill: [8:29] Okay so let's move on we've got a lot to cover tonight, maybe we'll get it all done in the one hour maybe we'll go over it might be a double episode tonight and then we'll just release the second half of the podcast the next week I don't know. Pastor Newms: [8:47] Wouldn't we just record the next half next week or else we wouldn't have any of the beginning stuff next week. Pastor Bill: [8:58] I don't know we'll play it by ear. Pastor Newms: [9:13] Okay okay. Pastor Bill: [9:16] I don't know I don't know okay so this week the results of a nationwide survey came out that the survey is done every it's not every year. Pastor Newms: [9:26] It's every two years. Pastor Bill: [9:27] Every two years, and it's a group called the state of Theology and they partner with Life Way. Now life way you know you used to see them as Christian bookstores everywhere well they kind of rain to that end because, well they weren't making any money they were losing money on their you know brick and mortar stores. It's 35 statements on theology Doctrine things like this. Pastor Newms: [10:02] How many statements? Pastor Bill: [10:05] 35 Pastor Newms: [10:08] Why do I only have 32 listed. Pastor Bill: [10:14] That's an interesting question but there’s thirty five statements okay so it's 35 statements and. Pastor Newms: [10:21] Oh no oh no. Pastor Bill: [10:26] People went in and took this survey and they would answer you know based on the options given. And so we're going to go through some of these and we're going to talk about the results and the question and talk about you know a scripture or maybe not a scripture but we're going to talk about the way we see it I may say one way that's your news May see the different way, everyone listening may see a completely different way than either one of us and that's fine on most of this a couple of these it is that basic, it's either this way or you're not actually a Christian kind of thing you know. Pastor Newms: [11:12] I would agree yes. Pastor Bill: [11:15] 1. God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake. Out of 3,000 people that responded 51 percent strongly agree, 15% somewhat agree nine percent weren't sure 10% somewhat disagreed and 15 percent strongly disagreed, that God was a perfect being and could not make a mistake. Right, so I believe God is a perfect being and that he does not make mistakes I also believe, that from my point of view I can look at something God has done, and either not see the big picture and think it was a mistake or not agree with it from my point of view and think it was a mistake, But ultimately from a grand scheme all of time expanse point of view God doesn't make mistakes and (responding to a live comment) - Biggs says our god well as, yeah there were this is off of the assumption that it is the Judeo Christian God of the Bible. Pastor Newms: [12:34] Which really plays into a future. Pastor Bill: [12:38] How do I word this correctly? Yeah it does. Pastor Newms: [12:41] So so yeah I I so this is the issue I have, overall you posit do you reckon continue with this one sorry so this is the issue I have overall so just so you know when you lean like that right there no one can see your face this is the issue I have, with this entire survey, and this is the issue I've had in this survey in past years also the wording of these questions are terrible. They are steeped in a biased belief of this is what I think whoever wrote These originally which this has been years and years and years ago so there's no telling, but it's very biased some of them are extremely christianese. Some of them aren't but, it's very much I have this set of beliefs so I'm going to ask the questions in this way not thinking about, any other situation because words like mistake what is a mistake you know um, like you mentioned I could view something that God did as I don't understand it or like it so to me it is a mistake in the perfect will of God it is not a mistake so, it's interesting to look at that in a lot of these questions is, the wording is so bad and don't worry I'll complain about English all night tonight so do be prepared the next two weeks I will be complaining about English the entire time so hold your seats and be prepared and I'll try not to blame Microsoft for anything but it is going to be English, blaming a lot so you have a scripture and I'll let you go first before I say what I was going to say because I thought you paused because you were going through it so. Pastor Bill: [14:45] So I attached Isaiah 55:8,9 to this. It says, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts and your ways are not my ways this is the Lord's declaration, for as Heaven is higher than Earth so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” And I think that really summed up what I was saying you know like God from God's point of view you know he works on a completely different playing field than the rest of us, and he's got the you know the 100-yard view whereas we're down here in the grass just trying to see daylight you know past the blades of grass, so Pastor Newms: [15:24] And what I looked at for it, was Psalms 18:39, “His way is perfect the word of the Lord is pure he's a shield who take all he's a shield to all who take refuge in him you know his way is perfect.” because it's his way and he kind of hit go so he gets to his prerogative because he said go. So that that that's a yeah. Pastor Bill: [16:01] 2. There is one true God in three persons God the Father God the son and God the Holy Spirit. Well once again, this is really a bias question it's worded with a lot of bias in it it's bad data collection but assuming that you believe in the one true God in a one true God. It then makes another assumption that you believe in the Trinity or don't d.c. they're asking do you believe in the Trinity or you not believe the Trinity everything's not really that clear-cut there's a lot of gray there I mean the idea of the trinity, isn't even one that's expressly stated in the Bible right it's a doctrine that we've pieced together out of context clues from, well this writer said this thing and this writer said this thing and this writer said this thing and through all of that, crafted this idea of the trinitarian nature of God, but there's no one scripture that just point blank says that and we could honestly spend a whole, episode of its own by itself going through all of the stuff that leads you to believe there is a trinity in the nature of God right, but that's not what we're doing tonight and so like this isn't another one of those bad ones, fifty-four percent of people strongly agree 16% somewhat agree 11 aren't sure president 5% somewhat disagree and 14 percent strongly disagree, with that statement that was not a pause that was me moving it over to you now. Pastor Newms: [17:50] Okay so this is where this is where I'm going to complain in my in my part so, with a one true God in three persons God the Father God the son and God the holy spirit so to me with the way this question is worded. I feel it leads one to sometimes especially if you're not steeped in christianese this is one of those that's steeped in crime if you're not, you might think of three God's not three parts of one God, and three the way the trilogy Trinity is you know three people that are one that are what you know because depending on how you read that sentence where the commas are how the you know, it's an interesting thought process, because the Trinity is like you mentioned hard in and of itself and. Verse I did pull a verse for this one, just one simple one that I kind of grabbed which is Galatians 4:6 and it says “in because you are Sons God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts crying Abba Father” and, so that does talk about all three parts in one the three persons that are all parts of one God that are, three at the same time which again steeped in christianese this is the Trinity and of itself is an extremely hard concept, unless you think of Body Mind and Spirit and can they be separated can they not excetera Etc so the Trinity is hard. It's deep theological stuff this isn't a an easy one. … Pastor Bill: [20:41] 3. God accepts the worship of all religions including Christianity Judaism and Islam. okay once again so bad so bad, so bad okay so 45 percent strongly agree with the. Um 22% somewhat agree 11% are not sure 6% somewhat to disagree and 16% like me strongly disagree with this statement, that God accepts the worship of all religions that's the statement. And then it gives a cough. Pastor Newms: [21:30] Why is that the statement why is that the. Pastor Bill: [21:32] Including the Judeo-Christian religions. Pastor Newms: [21:39] All three Abrahamic religions. Pastor Bill: [21:43] Including all three Abrahamic religions and I'm like wait God accepts worship with all religions so you're saying you know Hindu Buddhism Taoism. Pastor Newms: [21:54] Jediism the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Pastor Bill: [21:56] Jediism Zaroastrianism the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You're making a rather broad statement and then saying. Pastor Newms: [22:03] Yeah. Pastor Bill: [22:04] Including the Abrahamic religions. Pastor Newms: [22:08] Which I think is what throws a lot of people off with this question which is why you have so many that agree because when they, when they hear the statement well yeah all three of those religions serve the same God technically you know so. Yeah to you know and so this question is terrible because of that three. Pastor Bill: [22:36] But even in the three they should have disagreed I put John 14:6,7, “Jesus told him I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me if you know me you also know my father from now on you do know him and have seen him.” Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah or believe he is the way to the father so that kicks them out of the question Islam does not believe that Jesus is the son of God. Pastor Newms: [23:17] Which which I which I agree there's a difference between is God the god of these religions. Pastor Bill: [23:24] That that would be a question where you could say oh yeah yeah they all believe they're worshiping the same entity. Pastor Newms: [23:31] Right and but I believe there's also a line between see here's the other aspect accepts worship, and has a relationship with in eternity are also. Pastor Bill: [23:48] My wife, abatsbrain, bring brought up Cain and Abel, God accepted the offering of one and rejected the offering of the other because one was doing it according to the way it had been lined up and the other one wasn't and so it's that same question. Pastor Newms: [24:05] God accepted the worship of Judaism for a long time. Follower of a follower of original Islam, you know before you know not the modern that we know today I mean God spoke to, Ishmael and you know blah blah blah you know so there's you know and he was the founder of, you know that offshoot and then it goes and goes and goes and of course it ends up where it is now which we would agree that it is not the same but, the god that they worshipped was the same, and the tenants are the same because of it and then it went to left field of course because you know people. … Pastor Newms: [25:06] Wait wait so sorry I didn't know you're ready to move on um so I did Exodus 20:3-6 which is like the obvious one for this like, which is, “Do not have any other gods beside me, do not make an idol whether it is the shape of anything in the heavens above or the earth below or the waters under the Earth Do Not Bow and worship to them do not serve them for I the Lord your God am a jealous God punishing the children for their fathers iniquities to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me but show faithful love to a thousand generations for those who love me and keep my commandments.” which is pretty much a, you know you really shouldn't worship anyone else according to biblical standards because he kind of laid that one out there so if you're praying to an idol, even if it looks like a saint I mean um oops my bad. … Pastor Bill: [26:06] 4. God learns (that should be your red flag right away) and adapts to different circumstances, Um 32 percent strongly agree 20% somewhat agree 17 aren't sure 8% somewhat disagree and 23% like me saw that big red flag and went no, absolutely not God does not learn, God knew God knows got and so I pulled Malachi I've actually have two scriptures here written down the first ones Malachi 3:6. … Pastor Bill: [26:59] “Because I the Lord hath not changed you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed” now he does not say I will never change because obviously then he became Jesus that's somewhat of a change, big change but he had not. Pastor Newms: [27:17] Taking the physical form. Pastor Bill: [27:19] Right but then there's other scriptures that people have taken to say we'll see God never ever ever in any way changes anything. Pastor Newms: [27:29] Well and and I think I think one of the big things here. Pastor Bill: [27:32] Was James written down rather was James 1:17, “Every good and perfect gift is from above coming down from the Father of Lights who does not change like shifting Shadows” So God doesn't learn something and then and then change the way he's going to do something because he learns something new, he's not like shifting Shadows where you know the clouds are moving so that the sunlight causes the shadow to change it's not like that, God doesn't learn anything new he knew from the beginning he saw the end and everything in between he there is nothing left to learn for God so that's not really a thing.  Pastor Newms: [28:26] So the thing I wrote about this is you know God does not adapt because he's unchanging, in many ways it lists this through scripture and there's tons of scriptures of you know his ways doesn't change his personality doesn't his love doesn't there's there's all these different ones, that I found that you know trying to pick which one I wanted to use but they were all about aspects of God that dip that don't change his love will never change his this will never falter his you know blah blah blah blah blah. The big thing and you alluded to it is his. The way he handles things has changed because of Grace in Jesus so it's not that he adapted. Pastor Bill: [29:17] But he always he always had the proclivity to be that but we prevented him from being that. Pastor Newms: [29:27] Right and that's that's what I think that that's one of those things where it has a hard time sometimes where there are times where God changed his mind quote unquote. Pastor Bill: [29:39] I'm not quote unquote that's straight-up I Repent ever making humankind I'm gonna wipe them out with a flood that's got changing his mind. Pastor Newms: [29:50] Well well it could be God changing his mind it could be God going mean this was the worst I knew it was bad but, I knew it was bad but boo, they're just bad bad like I knew they were bad like I knew it was going to happen but looking at it it's kind of like when you do something and you know it's not going to turn out okay like you know if I try to do art, right if I try to draw something anyone who knows me in real life is seen this probably at some point unless you've been spared I will draw something, and I know it's going to be bad and then I show it to someone and they're like oh that's like bad bad like that's so bad other people are complaining about it I knew it was going to be bad but I didn't know other people were going to complain to me about how bad it was going to be to the degree that they and so I think that's part of the like God knew it was bad but then it's like in the moment this is even think this is bad bad but that doesn't mean he has changed or, that just means he has the ability to change his mind from the beginning of time and does it sometimes based on. Prayers based on situations. Pastor Bill: [31:09] Based on finding one righteous man on Earth who then said mmm don't wipe us all. Pastor Newms: [31:16] But even then but even then you know, it's kind of cool to Sodom and Gomorrah right Sodom and Gomorrah he struck them down not because he looked at him and went and they're bad because other people were crying for. Pastor Bill: [31:35] The cities around. Pastor Newms: [31:36] Because of how. Pastor Bill: [31:37] In Sodom and Gomorrah. Pastor Newms: [31:39] Right so it's one of those situations where it's, do you know these guys are so bad that other people are bringing it's not that he didn't know, but people have and it's that whole you start to deal with that whole and this is actually something that's later also, the whole aspect of asking asking I can ask and I will ask can I you know, there's that aspect of these types of situations God didn't change but God sometimes, Alters the course of his Divine will because of other situations which happened, right off the bat because we were all supposed to be naked in a garden eating fruit but one tree still to this day and I hate wearing clothes and I'm still upset about it but, it is what it is you told us we had to so I do but you know whatever. Pastor Bill: [32:40] Did I write down the wrong scripture for this next. Pastor Newms: [32:43] I didn't think I'd be able to work in the fact that I hate wearing clothes into a sermon ever that's awesome that's interesting. Pastor Bill: [32:48] 5. Biblical accounts of the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus are completely accurate, This event actually occurred. so one, accurate is a broad question that allows for to people's testimonies to contradict so math you can say one thing and Mark can say something different and they can still both be accurate, right now is it a faithful replication of events as in you'd have in a history book, not really there eyewitness accounts they're not a history text that's not what the gospels are this. Pastor Newms: [33:42] Isn't that what all history texts are though eyewitness account. Pastor Bill: [33:47] No there these are the facts that are verifiable, by multiple Witnesses and documents and records and evidence is to make historical it has to be backed up by multiple things, the gospels are simply one man's eyewitness account that he wrote down and then another man's eyewitness account that he wrote down. Pastor Newms: [34:13] I understand what you mean but I don't know if you've picked up historical text recently because they're not always verifiable and the country. Pastor Bill: [34:22] Well they're supposed to be okay so. Pastor Newms: [34:24] Yeah I'm just saying like. Pastor Bill: [34:27] I'm in the strongly agree category at 47% somewhat agree in nineteen percent not sure it 11 percent somewhat disagree at 8% and strongly disagree at 15% of people, Mr. Grogy says the winner writes history to a certain degree he's right. Pastor Newms: [34:47] Can you find the Skeptics in the room yeah they're all my family. Pastor Bill: [34:53] Romans 10:9, “If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.” if you disagree with statement number five then you do not meet the bare minimum requirements for being a Christian as the Bible explains them to be. The event actually occurred, you have to believe that as a prerequisite for being a Christian. It just is that just that is that's that's the Bare Bones. Pastor Newms: [35:40] Yeah so. Pastor Bill: [35:40] That's what makes you a. Pastor Newms: [35:42] Didn't I didn't even put a scripture down but I just wrote without faith in the resurrection Jesus wouldn't have been the Messiah so we wouldn't have belief in him so. Pastor Bill: [35:56] So this. Pastor Newms: [35:56] Peace out like that's what that's all I wrote. Pastor Bill: [35:57] This 15% that are like I strongly disagree that Jesus you've bodily Resurrected are you gonna tell him or should I I don't I don't know. Pastor Newms: [36:08] Well but do remember not everyone in this survey is a churchgoer even. Pastor Bill: [36:15] This was intended to be a survey of only churchgoers primarily Evangelical. Pastor Newms: [36:28] No cuz there's because in the structure. Pastor Bill: [36:29] 2,300 of them are not Evangelical and 711 of them were evangelicals. Pastor Newms: [36:37] And in attendance to church 642 of these people have never been to church. Pastor Bill: [36:45] I see that yeah. Pastor Newms: [36:48] And so you know not all. Pastor Bill: [36:52] 28 of them responded that they're not sure if they've ever been to church. Pastor Newms: [36:57] Yeah I didn't I thought that one was humorous. And I truly did find the, the differences in income and education level and their answers but that's just playing with data that's not part of this conversation anyway number. Pastor Bill: [37:23] 6. Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God. So 40% of respondents follow the Arian heresy apparently and believe that Jesus is a created being. 15% somewhat agree 13% weren't sure 8% somewhat disagreed and 24% including myself, I strongly disagree that Jesus is a being created by God and was the first of those beings. Pastor Newms: [38:24] And I believe 40% of that part of that 40% doesn't understand the question because of how poorly it's written. Pastor Bill: [38:35] So I put John chapter 1 verses 1 through 18 in there. “In the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was God he was with God” in the beginning you know on and on and on and on what number two. And then when we skip down to verse 14 “the word became flesh and dwelt among us we observed his glory the glory as the one and only son from the father full of grace and truth John testified” and then we get down to verse 17 and it identifies the person who became flesh as Jesus Christ, Verse 18 “no one has ever seen God the one and only son who is himself God is at the father's side he has revealed himself” no Jesus was not a created being, Jesus is a part of God who then gave up Divinity to become a human person. Read move on to the next one. Pastor Newms: [39:54] So I also wrote Genesis 1:26, the illusion of John 11 you know the in the beginning was the word and the Word was God in the well in 1:26 is “and then God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness” they will rule such and such and such and such and such, but, you know God used a plural there. Because we are three parts like he is three parts exactly Biggs we are just shoved into an earth suit it's a dirt sack. Pastor Bill: [40:40] 7. Jesus was a great teacher but he was not God There is literally no wrong answer to this question. Given that he was God before he was Jesus and then became a human being who was not God while he walked the Earth and then became God again after he died and rose again. Pastor Newms: [41:11] And then walk the earth some more. Pastor Bill: [41:12] And then walk the earth some more and he was a great teacher during all those different parts so I put in Philippians 2:5-11 so we can really understand what I'm saying at that point is, “adopt the same attitude as that of Christ Jesus who existing in the form of God (right so Jesus was God), did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited (so he didn't oh I'm God I'm gonna take advantage instead he emptied himself), by assuming the form of a servant (some of the translations have said gave up his divinity gave up the Divine part of himself to become a human being a lowly servant.) Even humbling himself to the point of death even to death on a cross” he was God he became not God he rose again and became God again there's no wrong answer here any of those answers would have been accepted a say acceptable, Thirty-One percent strongly agreed 22% somewhat agreed 11% were like you're going to need to be more specific that's kind of where I'm at I'm like you need to give me a little bit more specific with your question, nine percent somewhat disagreed and 27 percent strongly disagreed, which is you know the Hardline evangelicals that I went out there you saying he's not God and didn't actually think through the question all the way up I believe. Pastor Newms: [42:52] So and and part of my problem is is I refuse to go mid line because I'm a I'm a person who won't go midline ever so I put disagree because, there's that aspect of he was and now he is so even if he took on Humanity he was, is and so the was was not God makes me go no you can't you can't cuz he was. Pastor Bill: [43:22] Yeah like I said there's no wrong answer they're that. Pastor Newms: [43:25] Right right so what I put is this is funny because what I put, was what we just talked about I put John 1:14 which is in the word became flesh and dwelt among us we observed his glory the glory as one and only son of the father full of grace and truth, and then I put also John 8:24 and I didn't put it in chat when I was about to say it, “therefore I told you that you will die in your sins for you do not believe that I am he you will die in your sins” so, you know there's that even he said I am, which is which is a very dangerous statement in that culture because that is what God told, Moses it is what got you know I am and so, that was Jesus saying I am and so that's why you know I put that in there. And now we get to the fun ones. Pastor Bill: [44:35] This is the first fun one it says the Bible hates trans people. Pastor Newms: [44:39] It's not what it says it's what is. Pastor Bill: [44:44] 8. God created male and female Okay like I agree with that statement, it's a it's a factual statement about the text God created male and female now the subtext of what you're saying I disagree with, um 64 percent strongly agreed 14% somewhat agreed 97 percent were not sure 3% somewhat disagree in twelve percent strongly disagree so if we go to the text Genesis 5:2 “God created them male and female when they were created he blessed them and called them mankind” yeah, and then I wrote down Jeremiah 1:5 because this is where it actually gets interesting to me at least. Jeremiah 1:5 “I chose you before I formed you in the womb, I set you apart before you were born I appointed you a prophet to the nation's” doesn’t point blank say that God forms Us in the womb there, but it does imply that everyone is formed in the womb got stitches us together in the woman's another way it says that none of the scripture, God is not a man that he might lie or a son of man that he might change his mind as he speak and not act or promise and not fulfill, and you're probably going well what does that have to do with male or female or trans or any of that well, God created the world and humanity and he set us on our course, with certain laws of physics and Dynamics and responsibilities and we screwed the pooch right Adam and Eve ate the fruit welcomes in into our very beings into our very DNA, and so God goes in and he goes to form a person in the womb. And what does he have there to use legally without. Not fulfilling his word of giving us Authority and letting the laws that he set forth right so he uses what's there, and sometimes what's their doesn't always match what's inside. So I believe it's 100% possible, for the the items that were there to be stitched together stitch together a male. Who God originally intended to be a female, and so they have this female psyche this female spirit this female point of view and all the tools all the stuff that was there that was provided to God, could only be made into a male or vice versa there was a female but inside. Pastor Newms: [47:58] Sorry you said all the tools in it. Pastor Bill: [47:59] God intended them to be a female but the tools the matter that was provided to God, the only thing he could make out of it with something else, and I believe that's why some people are born without an arm or they're born half deaf or they're born blind or they're born one way or another, God only has certain materials to work with and he's not going to lie and make himself a liar and Rewind thousands of years of creation because all of a sudden, God's not God and we all cease to exist because the only thing holding all this craziness together is the idea the fact that God is God, and I've got isn't God anymore everything just falls apart. Pastor Newms: [48:43] So first off the reason I'm laughing is because you said the word tool a lot, and and certain people love to call certain parts tools and so it just it made me it made me like you kept going tools tools and I'm like tool because I'm 12 so, you know it works so what I wrote here is I agree of course because, the text, detect says so and then it says the first humans were male and female but the wording of this makes it seem very aggressive against all non-binary which, is of course even farther farther step than just trans you know there are people, non-binaries a much larger encompassing of you know trans and people who, there's lots covered under the whole umbrella so which is not spoken about in scripture anywhere, that I can. Pastor Bill: [49:48] I shouldn't even be a question. Pastor Newms: [49:49] That's what I'm saying it's not. Pastor Bill: [49:51] Finn was should we love everybody no matter what and Jesus said yes. Pastor Newms: [49:56] Right. Pastor Bill: [49:57] Cooks. Pastor Newms: [49:58] Yeah yeah and and so that's that's where this really comes down to and it really is especially the, the as we talked about its the wording and the the the way some of these questions are it's very much a do you agree to trans people should exist and you're like whoa whoa that's not. Pastor Bill: [50:18] But I can't just I can't I can't say this is a true or false statement like theirs. Pastor Newms: [50:25] Like this your what you're asking what you're asking me to say vs. what I believe about what you're asking me to say are two completely different things and I think that really makes this survey, garbage people. Pastor Bill: [50:43] But that's why we need to talk about it. Pastor Newms: [50:45] But yes so. Pastor Bill: [50:45] Because this is what people are talking about and they're looking at this and they're going well this is what Christians think about the world and I'm like. No that doesn't accurately represents how I feel about my neighbors. Pastor Newms: [51:03] And it doesn't accurate and again that's where it comes down to these questions are poor because it doesn't accurately represent what they mean and what people are going to take from it, and that's where these kind of questions in these kinds of surveys cause problems and cause divisiveness. But yeah and the state of and calling it the state of. Pastor Bill: [51:32] The state of. Pastor Newms: [51:35] And the state of Theology and then this is a question that's not a, theological question you're asking a morality question more than you're asking a theology question but that's beside the point asked what you mean say what these questions should be worded how they actually mean. Pastor Bill: [51:52] Same number 9. Pastor Newms: [51:53] Okay I'll wait to complain about that. Pastor Bill: [51:55] 9. The holy spirit is a force but is not a personal being thirty-three percent agree that the holy spirit is the force I'm sorry a force. That was a little Star Wars joke 26 percent yeah somewhat agree. Pastor Newms: [52:12] midi-chlorines. Pastor Bill: [52:13] We don't talk about midi-chlorians 15% are not sure 7% somewhat disagree and 19% where my people at strongly disagree, that the holy spirit is a force but not a personal thing and I wrote down John 14. Because I could look at my notes 15 through 18. Jesus talking “if you love me you will keep my Commandments and I will ask the father and he will give you another counselor to be with you forever he is the spirit of Truth, the world is unable to receive him because it doesn't see him or know him but you do know him because he remains with you and will be in you” and if you follow along with the story, Jesus references this comforter again and Point Blank tells them it's the Holy Spirit and to wait for him to arrive, after and you go on and that's what happens in Acts 2. Pastor Newms: [53:23] So, this is again this is all about wording, this is all about wording and I did not throw things at my wife as she was walking up and down the stairs and then she did not throw them back at me because I am a child, this is all about the wording of this does trip me up some I wrote disagree this spirit is a distinct part of the Trinity but it is a spirit not a physical being so the question is written in a way, that leans people to answer a certain way, I was only slightly distracted groggy huh the issue I have, is when you read personal being, right there's two things that that can come from that like he is distinct he is a being but when you read personal being and force, there's that, well he's not a person so not a person no but like the question is worded so poorly. It's that whole like I know what you're asking, but it's written really bad like like I could answer true because he is not a person because a person in our definition of person has a body, but person know being he is a distinct being so and he is a force because, he's not physical so there's there this is one of those questions where like I know what they're asking and. I disagree but the wording makes me want to pull my own ears off, if someone actually called me an actually asked me these questions I'm pretty sure they would just Mark me as no answer on all of them and hang up because they've get two questions in and their ears would be bleeding, cuz that would be a. Pastor Bill: [55:46] 10. The holy spirit gives a spiritual New Birth or new life before a person has faith in Jesus Christ. That's just poppycock I sat here and stared at the computer when I read that the first time when I was like, that's that's just that's ridiculous twenty-seven percent of people strongly agree with that statement, 23% somewhat agree 21 percent aren't sure 9% somewhat disagree in twenty percent strongly disagree, if the Holy Spirit. Pastor Newms: [56:53] 50% of that 27 percent didn't hear the word before. Pastor Bill: [56:56] Right I guess so if the holy spirit gives you a spiritual New Birth or new life before you have faith in Jesus Christ then you've attained salvation before you've attained salvation. Pastor Newms: [57:09] Well to be fair to be fair there are people who believe, there are a second Christianity who believe you are chosen in the past, before anything happened God chose who would be saved and that's actually talked about later there are people who believe that and so for the people who believe that this makes total sense, because oh yeah he he decided I'm going to have a new life before I had a new life and you're like putting. Pastor Bill: [57:48] This isn't said decided this is Gibbs this says this is this is saying those people who are elect they have they have new life a new birth when they're still before they believe that. Pastor Newms: [58:03] Some of them some of them believe that that they're perfect already. Pastor Bill: [58:08] Like they could just go out and murder a bunch of people and they would still go to heaven because they were chosen Before Time that's ridiculous. Pastor Newms: [58:17] So what verse did you right now. Pastor Bill: [58:20] The same one as for 9, “if you love me you will keep my commands and I will ask the father and he will give you another counselor” he's not you're not going to be given the counselor you're not gonna be given the Holy Spirit you're not going to have the Holy Spirit before you love Jesus and keep his commands you can't you can't hook up, you you take the horse and you hook the cart to the horse you don't put the horse behind the cart and hook the cart to the horse and then start whipping the cart like why won't this thing go. Pastor Newms: [58:56] So I wrote you know I wrote little passages for each of these as my personal notes so that way when you looked at me and I would go oh blah because, this one's heavier so I didn't want to misspeak off the cuff like I sometimes will so for number 10 I wrote disagree. And I didn't write anything else I wrote a scripture so I'll read the scripture but I wrote nothing I just wrote disagree because like you said huh, but I didn't write anything because I was like I don't have anything to write for that that is so silly my brain hurts so I wrote second Corinthians 5:17, and I said it's I said hmm, I've copied and it says “therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation the old has passed away and see the new has come” you have to be, in Christ before you are a new creation this isn't a. Read the book sorry that's rude of me but some of these questions got me real hot and bothered some of these questions got me real hot and bothered. Number 11. Pastor Bill: [1:00:31] All right this is this is going to be a fun one 11. The Holy Spirit can tell me to do something which is forbidden in the Bible. Pastor Newms: [1:00:42] Do you want me to start you want me you want me to start. Pastor Bill: [1:00:49] Eleven percent strongly agree with that statement 11% somewhat agree. Pastor Newms: [1:00:54] Aha aha. Pastor Bill: [1:00:55] Sixteen percent aren't sure 11% somewhat disagree and a whopping 51% of people strongly disagree, with this statement but before I tell people what I chose. Pastor Newms: [1:01:08] Aha. Pastor Bill: [1:01:09] Imagine if you will you are Peter, in the New Testament and the Holy Spirit tells you, you can eat meat that isn't clean and you go but the Bible says I can't do that, so you must not be the Holy Spirit. Like God doesn't change but the way that he interacts with humans does, things that were forbidden for certain cultures in the Bible because it wouldn't have been good for them like eating pork because they didn't know how to take care of it, may not be forbidden for you as a person living in today in the Old Testament you couldn't wear cloth that was two different types of fibers, but that's okay today. Pastor Newms: [1:02:10] So so I know you know go ahead and say where you stand and and then I'm going to say what I wrote and why I wrote it. Pastor Bill: [1:02:18] I strongly agree with the statement that the Holy Spirit can tell me to do something which is forbidden in the Bible. Pastor Newms: [1:02:24] So I disagree and here's why, the things that we get from a holy spirit should align with scripture since we know God doesn't change and all in scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching rebuking correcting and and training in second Timothy now the reason I said this, is because of the wording of the question, the Holy Spirit can tell me to do something that is forbidden to me hope that didn't go through on Twitch. Because of the wording of the question and this is where the question is so terrible. There are people in our culture who has said things like God told me to murder my children and you're like death didn't go somewhere. Pastor Bill: [1:03:18] See that violates the spirit of the text you he won't tell you to violate the spirit of the text. Pastor Newms: [1:03:27] And that's what I mean when I say that not that. You know