Pastor Newms: [0:00] Hey Pastor Newms how was your week? Okay so my week was good. Pastor Bill: [0:04] Pastor Newms how was your week? Pastor Newms: [0:06] I know we're trying to keep it semi shorter than normal so we can get into the 20 things we want to talk about tonight. Pastor Bill: [0:13] We got a live 1 through 15 last time right. Pastor Newms: [0:15] We did we got through 15 last time and we're trying we're on 16 and I think that some of these ones we might just go hey let's talk about this one in this one together at the same time as opposed to doing explanations because like. Pastor Bill: [0:29] Why would we do that? Pastor Newms: [0:30] Because 16 and 17 are almost exactly like my answers are similar because they feed into each other what is one is one is one is two is kind of, but anyway so my week was good it was busy with work, I picked up my suit I honestly thought about wearing it tonight just to throw everyone off because I'm the one who wears the t-shirt and you're the one who wears the collared shirt and so would be really funny if, I'm in a suit. … Pastor Bill: [12:51] All right so we are on week 2 of going over the state of theology. Pastor Newms: [13:02] And for anyone not live who didn't listen to week one do you want to summarize what that is quickly. Pastor Bill: [13:09] Sure so every year or every other year rather this group called The State of Theology and and Life Way that used to run like for Christian bookstores they put out a it's not really a survey. its statements, and then you, whether or not each statement is true or false you answer strongly agree somewhat agree not sure somewhat disagree or strongly disagree, surveys this year and then you know put out the results of their state of Theology and it's very flawed, very flawed from a data standpoint from a Believer standpoint and the reason we're talking about it is because, this is what people are talking about people in the world are taking this survey and then you go and you see this is what Christians believe and. Mmm the takeaways that people are saying this is proof of what Christians believe doesn't represent what I believe and it doesn't represent how I feel about my neighbors, and doesn't represent the way I see God and and all of this so we're going over it because, we need to go over we need to go over you know why do we believe the way we believe and you need to decide as a listener or viewer what you believe about these different items, that's what this is, last week we went through statements 1 through 15 so this week we're going to pick up on 16 and Jonathan suggested we just lump 16, 17 together because they're they're pretty close to the same thing they're like super close to each other. Pastor Newms: [14:58] Well well and and I think that's part of like what I wrote in 16 is basically saying 17, I agree with but 16 go ahead so let's jump into it. Pastor Bill: [15:13] 16. The Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true. So 25 percent strongly agree 28 percent somewhat agree, 6% not sure 14 percent somewhat disagree and 27 percent strongly disagree, with this statement. Pastor Newms: [15:41] And and what is 17 and then we'll talk about both of them at the same time. Pastor Bill: [15:47] 17. The Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches. And the numbers on strongly and whatever didn't change enough to even really talked about the change in numbers more people agree, but that's really the only big difference between the results on the two questions. Pastor Newms: [16:08] The sides just kind of flipped. Pastor Bill: [16:12] Really flip I mean strongly disagree barely changed it all. The Bible like all sacred writings contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not a literally true and then the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches so. On 16, example of accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true I put somewhat agree, and the Bible is 100 percent accurate and all the teachers I put strongly disagree now what did I put because my results aren't here anymore and I didn't write them down I think I agree with that. Pastor Newms: [16:55] So I put. So my problem is this is my problem is in both of these is the wording because. Pastor Bill: [17:06] Well it's always the wording but where's our. Pastor Newms: [17:08] It is 1 it straight says like all sacred writings, contains helpful so right off the bat it Compares it to all sacred writings so I have two right off the bat it's like no, not like other writings it doesn't it's not the same, because it's not myths like other sacred writings so right off the bat I had it's like no the wording makes me say no I disagree completely and then I put that I agree on 17, in that it's accurate in what it teaches and I think that's the big. Like a lot of people would view those two questions as very similar but to me they're completely different because, the Bible is not a set of myths rather a book to be studied and learned from I believe it's all true, I do think that as written by men inspired by God through the Holy Spirit and then translated that some of its meaning has been lost to understanding of the original texts and then I used First Corinthians 13:11 - 13 when I was a child I spoke as a child I thought as a child I reasoned like a child when I became a man I put aside childish things for now we see only a reflection of reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face now I know in part, but then I will know fully as I am fully known now these three remain faith hope and love but the greatest of these is love, is what I put for the first one because it's one of those words like it's true in that it was written truthfully, and it was truthful accounts and it is truthful retellings of those accounts because truth and inaccurate are two different things and then.  Pastor Bill: [19:14] So I'm going to a little bit of a different route. And in the cutting my head buds just died so I have to switch that out here in a second but in the concepts I believe that the Bible is accurate, I think there are certain things that people have claimed the Bible teaches, that aren't accurate and so there's that problem. Um and so I believe if the Bible was 100% literally true, and it was like we said before if it was a it was a complete lie, verifiable history book that you had no question on whether of on the veracity of it one way or the other then it would eliminate the need for faith, um Hebrews 11 verse 6 says now without faith it is impossible to please God since the one who draws near to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him, and Hebrews 11:1 says now Faith is the reality of what is hoped for the proof of what is not seen, if the Bible is literally literal and it's 100% literal and everything in it is, just literally the way it happened and it's 100% right and it's a it's a guidebook for every way that you should live your life down to the letter t, then that removes the need for faith and I just, I believe that would be the case I don't I don't that doesn't make any sense to me. Groggy says but isn't faith that we believe that it's 100% ride so that's having faith in the Bible not having faith in God I've talked about that in the past that, I feel like a lot of evangelicalism if that's the right uses that word has turned the Bible into an idol, where we have more faith in this collection of writings then we do in in actually in God and in the whole he's leaning on the Holy Spirit, and so we elevated what is an amazing thing to something that it was never intended to be, it's not intended to be worshipped and holy and put Faith in it, we're supposed to be creating disciples and having faith based off of what we're you know we're urging each other to faith in Christ to faith in God and then we're replacing that with oh well I think them this book. Pastor Newms: [22:24] To me I mean to me we've had this conversation a lot. Well and that's where there's a difference like I was saying there's a difference between shrew, truth and accuracy like for example here's an example in the Old Testament there are places where they give numbers of people, and they say this number, of people were here this number of people were here is that number one hundred percent accurate, the fact that there are 5,000 people at the feeding of the fish well there was 5,000 men well okay cool but what is a man. Was there 5001 was there 4999 so it's like 5,000 the the language that we use, is different and the meanings behind languages tree is different so the accuracy isn't, as important as truth you can tell the story and believe it is true and have faith that it is true while you're telling it, does not mean it's a hundred percent accurate because you might have actually you know use your left hand instead of your right, when you're telling a story doesn't mean you are wrong or misleading or lying it just means it's not perfect like we aren't perfect and the people who wrote it on, perfect even Paul says go ahead no go ahead. Pastor Bill: [24:17] What Groggy said here on Twitch was but if the Bible isn't true then the stories aren't true then what we believe isn't true and you my friend have just nailed faith on the head. Without the possibility for doubt there is no need for faith you have to have faith. That God is real that's God sent his son that God that God that that this happened that that happened not because the Bible says it not because you believe that this book is accurate but because you have faith. In God not in this collection of stories is your mom saying you have to have faith in God not faith in the, if you have faith in the Bible then you're saying that this book is literal and true and and yada yada all these things that we've seen recently and that leads us into the next one which ties into it perfectly statement 18 modern science disproves the Bible. You can go look up a list of the ways that the Bible doesn't line up with science, and over time there's been things where the Bible and science have disagreed and it was literally that, um science then later had a revelation that made it line up with the Bible or people's interpretation of what the Bible was saying, changed later and they realized oh my gosh science got that right and we didn't understand what the Bible was saying, but then there's been other times where like David is praying and he says consider the ants who have no Queen, who works alone and you're like but we know that ants work in a colony structure and they literally have a queen. There's that instance where you can't look at what David said and say oh because he got included in the Bible what David said that literally means ants don't live in a colony and they work alone and and they don't have a queen well no, David believed that, that's all that it's their scripture is saying is David believe that the ants to and that was part of his prayer, but this whole idea of literal Bible and faith in the Bible and faith in the Bible causes not only Christians to look at the Bible and get things wrong but for people in the world so look at the Bible and go, well if they if they believe this is literal and 100% true I can find ways that it's not and so why would I ever even consider what they're saying. Pastor Newms: [26:58] And and so. Pastor Bill: [27:01] It's literally an anti-gospel position, to believe the Bible is 100% true and. Pastor Newms: [27:09] It's an interesting one so for the on 17 the Bible is 100% accurate one of the things I wrote is, the teachings and the principles are what should be focused on not the history, certain of the historical aspects in certain of the parts that are specifically just parts of letters like hey this is your man Paul like okay cool that's not necessarily inspired that's, he wrote that at the top of a letter so they knew who was writing it. Pastor Bill: [27:40] Man I left my coat when I was there last time can you bring it to me. For those of you listening to the podcast abatbrain on Twitch said I keep hearing a door shut. Pastor Newms: [27:57] Yeah sorry so um in second Timothy 3:16, all scripture is inspired by God for and is profitable for teaching rebuking correcting and training in righteousness and I think that's a part that we ignore, is that last two words of in righteousness the point of the Bible is for religious teachings religious correcting religious training not, everything else. Pastor Bill: [28:37] And a lot of people get that word inspire wrong as well. Pastor Newms: [28:39] Yes it's Breathed. Pastor Bill: [28:41] Inspired doesn't mean God whispered word for word what people should write when they were writing things that later got included in the Bible, Paul, you talked about it before Paul we look at things as in a mirror Darkly dimly lit you know, Paul's talking about looking in a polished piece of metal by candlelight and trying to describe something behind you in the room, that's back there in the dim dark with a crappy mirror this this is us when we're writing by inspiration. That is not anything like God whispering in your ear what to write. Pastor Newms: [29:20] Well and I think it's one of those where, there's a difference between an inspiration and a whisper like you said there's there's this idea people like oh well it's inspired which means. You know it's like got the Holy Spirit, then God are standing behind you and telling you exactly as opposed to hey you should probably talk about this which we've all felt as Christians that leaning towards something hey you really should probably talk to this person about such and such that's the same inspiration, they just were writing letters. Pastor Bill: [29:59] And things like when Paul's writing and he goes now I'm not sure that God sees it this way but I think he does I think God's on my side on this one, this is my opinion and I'm not sure that God holds this opinion but I think he does. Pastor Newms: [30:15] Yeah and so it's interesting when we start to look at stuff like that and I know there's a lot of people who and this is one of those things that me and you don't 100% agree on is the usage, of how you say certain things as opposed to what you're trying to say, because some people take it a lot harsher because you are more strong on this opinion whereas I'm like it's not, and you're like probably an idol and I'm like well it's, can be if you have done certain things and yeah because people are doing it right now no I understand what you're saying what this is one of the only topics we're Pastor Bill is actually harsher than I am let's be honest. And and, abatbrain said she thought the door was some sound effect I might be hitting somewhere because it's exactly the same every time and that's just coincidence. Pastor Bill: [31:18] They're just over there randomly hitting a sound effect button just like tink. Pastor Newms: [31:22] Which which let's be honest that is. Pastor Bill: [31:25] I don’t hear it in my ear bud. Pastor Newms: [31:26] That is something I would do let's be clear I mean let's be honest that is something I would do just to mess with people so it's a valid question, cuz if I was doing it, I would if I was doing it I would be like until someone says something every so many seconds that I've rolled on this dice I'm going to press this button and so um anyway number 19. Pastor Bill: [31:54] Yeah we're on the number 19 number 19. God chose the people he would save before he created the world. Pastor Newms: [32:02] Now so I want to start with this one because I made a boo-boo, when I was going through my text I made a boo-boo when I was going through and I was writing all the stuff down, I wrote disagree because I was trying to make sure I got through all of them and then I scroll back to the top and the worked back down through them to make sure I had them all. In the past I called myself a three-point calvinist Calvinism teaches that one of the, tulip one of the points of the Tulip is that. God selected everyone before and then. These are who's going to be saved the elect these are who's going to be saved everyone else is going to be saved some people even take it so far as to because of that we shouldn't even spread the gospel we shouldn't try to make disciples we shouldn't try to spread Christianity which is of course blatantly against you know the whole thing we're talking about, previously to talking about this which is we're supposed to build disciples and that involves preaching and if we're supposed to try to make disciples we can't know who the elect are so, you know I just put disagree no backup no nothing it's like just no I'm sorry, but I'm sure you probably did. Pastor Bill: [33:45] I also disagreed with this and I brought two scriptures okay for the first one Ephesians 1 chapter 4 through Ephesians chapter 1 verses 4 through 8 stick with me here okay. For he chose us in him talking about God, before the foundations of the world to be holy and blameless in love before him he predestined us, to be adopted as Sons through Jesus Christ for himself according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious Grace that he lavished on us in the beloved one the beloved one in this context is Jesus he mentioned them earlier, verse 7 in him we have Redemption through his blood the Forgiveness of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace that he richly poured out on us with all wisdom and understanding, pull the sounds like it backs up to statement doesn't it it sounds like. Pastor Newms: [34:45] No Pastor Bill: [34:47] He's talking to other Christians and he says he chose us in him to be adopted as Sons. Pastor Newms: [34:52] Now because he was. Pastor Bill: [34:53] Then we flip over to Second Peter 3:9. Pastor Newms: [34:56] He's talking about Humanity. Pastor Bill: [35:00] Mmm starting in verse 8 dear friends don't overlook this one fact with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day, the Lord does not delay his promise as some understand delay but is patient with you not wanting any to perish, all to come to repentance and then it talks about the day of the Lord's return in comes like a thief in the night, if the Lord predestined only certain people to be elected to be saved before the foundations of the world, and they're saved no matter what and those are the only people going no matter what kind of left they live right because that's the belief, then what is this disk delay that the Lord has hoping that everyone will come to repentance that everyone will be saved. It doesn't make any sense it's God's will that all, be sick not just so not just a few he didn't choose to see certain amount of people from the very beginning don't make sense. Pastor Newms: [36:07] And and the worst the worst part is can you make sure to put that scripture in the chat because I don't hear which one it was one of the, yeah please one of them one of the things I always find funny about the belief about the elect which is why I called myself a three-point calvinist because the belief of the elect is, another part of a bat another part of bat-brains you know something that a bat brain would make later, the it's a group of guano because it doesn't make any sense because. … Pastor Newms: it's crazy to think OK God chose this group of people and here's how you know, you know you were elected because you believed it if you question whether or not you were elected You're Not Elected. Pastor Bill: [38:01] Which is just that's completely. Pastor Newms: [38:05] Like ... Pastor Bill: [38:06] A cult answer from start to finish. Pastor Newms: [38:09] Like huh. Pastor Bill: [38:12] If you exercise free thought, you're obviously not chosen obviously you're not so. Pastor Newms: [38:20] It's like I doubt whether or not I ate I'm trying to remember if I took my pills each day like I don't remember if I did or didn't do did you do this, I honestly can't answer that Zaydie I don't know whether I did the thing that you're wanting to tell me that I did or not I don't remember I might have unloaded I might have put that dirty dish right there I might have you know it's so I don't know, like it's just funny to me that's like if you question then you a question did I put a shirt on today yeah no I am wearing one. Pastor Bill: [38:56] There's I think therefore I am. Pastor Newms: [38:59] Exactly exactly it. Pastor Bill: [39:00] So I think I'm saved and I guess I am I don't know. Pastor Newms: [39:04] It's absolute Bonkers okay number whatever. Pastor Bill: [39:09] All right number 20. … Pastor Bill: [39:23] Number 20 and you you jumped right into this one last week because you were like we're gonna hit that hard even though we weren't there yet 20. Hell is a real place where certain people will be punished forever. And of course we're going to jump to Revelations and I want we're going to look at verses 7 through 10 and then we're going to look at verses 14 through 15 okay that's the first thing we're going to do. All right well I guess I'll read seven through 15 then and then we'll move on all right relations 27 through 15 when the thousand years are completed okay so let's talk about. Pastor Newms: [40:09] Real quick can we just lump in 21 and be done with it. Pastor Bill: [40:14] The whole chapter. Pastor Newms: [40:15] No no no the question 21 because I actually have this written down for 21 also. Pastor Bill: [40:22] I have 11 through 15 for 21 okay yeah. Pastor Newms: [40:24] So can we just say what 21 is and. Pastor Bill: [40:27] So 20 is Hell's a real place 21. There will be a time when Jesus Christ returns to judge all the people who have lived Okay, so like I like we always do you need context sometimes you in the Bible says when the thousand years are completed Satan will be released from his prison, okay so there's this time when the Bible says that Jesus will come down and he will rule the Earth. For a thousand years, and anyone who has ever been martyred will come with him. Now this is post Rapture post and it cries post a whole bunch of stuff right as far as the timeline goes, Jesus comes back anyone who's ever been martyred comes with him they rule the Earth they rule over the Earth read a thousand years well during this Thousand Years Satan is locked in Chains in the bowels of the Earth, as punishment for everything that he's ever done the Rebellion everything at the end of that thousand years he's released scot-free, Penance paid. Right he's paid his Penance he's free to go he can step into eternity as an angel he's scot-free Satan released from his prison, but that's not what he does he doesn't go on scot-free he will go out to deceive the Nations at the Four Corners of the earth Gog and Magog to gather them for battle the number is like the sand of the sea, they came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the Saints. The Beloved City the in fire came down from heaven and consumed them, the devil who deceived them was thrown into the Lake of Fire and sulfur where the Beast and the false prophet are and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever that verse verse 10 right there that's hell, that's Satan or the devil, and all of the Beast and the false prophets and the fallen angels, they're all being thrown into hell to be torture, verse 11 then I saw. Pastor Newms: [42:46] Not a fun place he rules not a fun place he rules. Pastor Bill: [42:51] No not a place he rules it doesn't rule there. Pastor Newms: [42:54] Such a bad misconception. Pastor Bill: [42:57] For all of eternity, then I saw a great white throne and one seated on it Earth and Heaven fled from his presence and no place was found for them, I also saw the Dead the Great and the small standing Before the Throne and books were opened, another book was opened which is The Book of Life and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books, then the sea gave up the dead that were in it and death and Hades or steel is that word the place of the dead before Christ did what he did gave up the dead that were in them, each one was judged according to their Works death and Hades so, no more death and chill were thrown into the Lake of Fire. Pastor Newms: [43:45] The places themselves. Pastor Bill: [43:46] This is the second death yeah but that the entity and the place itself this is the second death the Lake of Fire and anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life, was thrown into the Lake of Fire right so several books some books to judge everything you ever did while you were alive, and then the one book that actually matters the pass or fail are you in the Book of Life did you have faith you know believe and in. Like we said last time it's more complicated than that because if you're shocked if you're casting a brush over all of creation you've got people that live on islands that have never heard you've got and so, extenuating circumstances God gets to decide it's God's decision it's not our decision. Pastor Newms: [44:39] He's who writes in the book and he's the one who judges on the book so. Pastor Bill: [44:44] Jesus said the only way to the father is through him right. Pastor Newms: [44:48] Right. Pastor Bill: [44:50] Then Jesus is free to reach out, at any point did anyone in the world at any time in the right way at the right time you know it's a whole thing and it's out of my hands it's not something I can do. So yeah so that. Did you want to add anything to that? Pastor Newms: [45:12] So I touched last time hard on it because you know. I tend to go hard sometimes when I'm not paying attention and get preachy not that I've ever been overcome with that before but I think it's I think it's so important to is Hell real, yes is the hell that we understand real no is anyone. Pastor Bill: [45:40] The hell that we modernly attribute to what exists comes from Dante's Inferno. Pastor Newms: [45:46] Right is hell. A place where the devil rules and ect ect no no no it is a Lake of Fire. Pastor Bill: [46:01] It's not even a place where people are right now. Pastor Newms: [46:04] Not the right where people are currently. Pastor Bill: [46:06] Not the lake of, not hell. Pastor Newms: [46:08] Lake of Fire in its is not where people are currently no no human people, there are certain Angelic beings that are not no they're not even trapped in the Lake of Fire they're trapped in Hades aren't they. Pastor Bill: [46:24] There are there's technically would be some that are in the Lake of Fire already. Pastor Newms: [46:29] From the from the chained up you know you made a huge amount. Pastor Bill: [46:33] You would have to go to some some extra biblical text to find the proof but yeah there are there are recorded some Angelic beings that have already been cast into the Lake of Fire. Pastor Newms: [46:44] Because they get opened up there at the very you know during Revelation and let free for a little bit to you know go mess around. Pastor Bill: [46:53] Well that's a different set of angels that are. Pastor Newms: [46:55] That is a different set I know but again fuzzy. Pastor Bill: [47:00] Those are good Angels aren't even bad Angels that's right there's the good guys, they're just so powerful and so overwhelming and so that. Pastor Newms: [47:11] They're in that area between they're not in, there in that area between what was Abraham's bosom and and Sheol and in the pit area just going a we're here we're waiting we're playing cards. Pastor Bill: [47:29] Playing card. Pastor Newms: [47:30] Time all right 22. Pastor Bill: [47:35] 22. Worshiping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church. Y'all. Thirty-five percent strongly agree with the statement 32% somewhat agreed 9% weren't sure 14% somewhat disagreed and ten percent strongly disagreed listen, I understand. I do not go to a regular Sunday morning serve this and I strongly disagree with this statement, it is not a valid replacement worshiping alone or with your family is not a valid, for church and the reason why Church comes from a word that means Community right from the very beginning it was that Believers of different households, we joined Believers from other households and created a community to support each other, push each other and how they could outdo each other and extravagantly loving others and loving God, you don't get that when you're alone and you don't get that when you're with immediate family you just don't, the familiarity of family breeds, contempt and another word contempt is changed meaning over the years the basically it breeds this this this idea that not only do I maybe not can't, tell this person what to do but then when I do they don't have to do it I'm telling them to do you know like you can't tell me to do that I know you used to pee in the bathtub, that kind of thing. Pastor Newms: [49:27] Or I know you still pee in the shower. Pastor Bill: [49:29] I know that you still be in the shot yeah like it it doesn't work you need people from outside that Family Circle, that you Revere that you respect that have that edge on you to push you and doing good things for others to push you into loving God, it is being alone or just being with your immediate family that is not a valid, for regularly attending church but. Pastor Newms: [49:58] Define what church is. Pastor Bill: [49:59] Isn't always. What we see as Sunday morning Gathering and Wednesday Matt Gathering and we will get to that in question number, 24 about what church is but no. Pastor Newms: [50:15] See I shoved it all in here and then in 24 I said see above so what I wrote is defined Church churches the mind, church church in my mind and the mind of early Believers were that you would gather to study and to learn with each other not just one guy, being the one that. And so I used the Acts 2:42 through 47 which they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching to the fellowship to the breaking of the bread and to prayer everyone was filled with awe and many work wonders and signs were performed through the apostles now all the Believers were together and held all things in common they sold their possessions and property and distributed the proceeds to all, as any had need every day they devoted themselves, to meeting together in the temple and broke bread from house to house the ate the food was joyful and sincere Hearts praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people every day the Lord added to their numbers those who are being saved and one of the things I found really interesting about 47 and I think this was the first time I noticed it was the early church was loved by all the people around them, because of the amount of love the early church showed which. Pastor Bill: [51:44] It's not that hard. Pastor Newms: [51:45] Very. Pastor Bill: [51:46] To endear yourself to someone it's not that hard to go up to someone and say hey what do you need, cool let's do it let's go do that thing let me let me take a couple of hours and let's go do that thing, and suddenly you've made a friend for life it's not that hard to love it's really not, it's not that hard to endear yourself to someone and make it to where they go oh my gosh you're a great friend what can I do for you how can I can I make your day as good as you've just made mine it's not that difficult to walk in love it's not, choose to make it difficult we say we are Democrat and I'm a Republican or I'm repelled you know I'm a Democrat or a Republican or oh I go to this church you got to be focused on these differences, that when you boil it down to brass tacks mean nothing and we allow those things to keep us from loving each other, the other Church didn't do that they didn't say oh will you believe in the Greek gods I can't love you or or oh you're a Roman I can't do that with you that's not what they said oh they loved their neighbors, to such an extreme that they had the favor of everyone to the point that when Paul who was Saul, came around to start killing people. It wasn't just the people in the church that were hiding the Believers the community around the Believers, them off and they would move their camp or they would hide them in their homes until Saul and his rating party left it was it was these non-believers were literally risking their lives, for these Believers because they loved them they loved the Believers because the Believers showed love.  Pastor Newms: [53:38] Yeah alright number 23. Pastor Bill: [53:45] 23. Christians should be silent on issues of politics. This is one where Pastor Newms and I disagree. Um we always have and I don't know if my earbuds just died again or you can I still hear you. Pastor Newms: [54:09] I don't know can you still hear me. Pastor Bill: [54:11] Okay yes I can hear you I just wanted you to be able to interject at any point if you needed to and if my earbud had died because you're canceling ear you're canceling thing with the system to and it just I don't hear everything going on on your end but so. 17% of people strongly agree with the, 13% somewhat agree nine percent aren't sure 21% somewhat disagree and forty percent strongly disagree that Christians should be silent on issues of politics, and I get it I understand that our system is set up the way it's set up and it makes people feel, like they have to be Hands-On and that it's not only a right but it's a duty that you have to do it. But, if we take a step back from all of that and we look at politics let's first let's look at our Representatives, if I ran for Senator, I would have to represent the viewpoints of all the political parties of the people, from my area I would have to represent all over the religious beliefs of the people from my area, and for me to just go well my Christian worldview and the way I see it is the way I'm going to do it is wrong. That's not secular. That's a whole damn don't stock right now you're coming out of much bigger if I gotta put this here but in and Swap this one out. Um so that's a religious government not a secular government and you only have to go as far as to look at what's going on in Iran right now. To understand that you don't want a religious government. Pastor Newms: [56:30] Like you said this is something we disagree on and worst of all is the the wording of the question should Christians be, on the issue of politics and that's where I have my issue and say I disagree because we should not be silent in our feeling of running the country but we should be very careful not to allow our Christian views to run over others belief subsystems and try to subjugate them the whole reason why the separation of church and state exists in America is the the founding fathers did not want one religion subjugating, the whole country the whole populace they didn't want anyone to feel, like they were being subjugated by a religion which is where some of them not all of them because it depends on which country they came from it depends on lots of situations of are the founding of our nation but lots of them came from oppressive governments that oppressed them and so they were looking for, a way to not be oppressed Ed so, what I pulled for this is a lot different I pulled John 15:12 this is my command love one another as I have loved you, and the reason I pulled that verse for this is because what's so important here is. There's a difference between being silent and forcing your belief system on someone else, speaking. Of how the country should be rant we shouldn't be silent on the fact that we don't want a road through a city that's around, this or we shouldn't be silent there are certain parts of politics that we shouldn't be silent on but if we are allowing our religious beliefs to, push upon people that's that's in my opinion where there is a problem, is that difference we shouldn't be silent in politics because there's a lot of that politics that have nothing to do with religion and there's. Pastor Bill: [58:59] There's a lot of politics that have nothing to do with I mean there's a lot of government that has nothing to do with politics. Pastor Newms: [59:06] Well and again that depends on the word that depends on. Pastor Bill: [59:09] Things you're talking about building a road here or there you're talking about local government. Pastor Newms: [59:14] That's still political though, because so and so wants it because he'll make more money if you build that road so and so doesn't want it because their Farms going to be cut off from such and such it is still that is still politics that is still political the problem as you mentioned is a two party system trying to prescribe one half of the country against the other half of the country which isn't, politics that's part of politics it's just the emotionally-charged part that we all think of, everything's political small town government is sometimes more political than big government this family runs the world you know etc etc. Pastor Bill: [59:57] I know you I know you already know everything I'm gonna say in this opinion and this you know issue but I believe in prayer and just trusting God to work it out, Romans 13:1 says let everyone submit to the governing authorities since there's no Authority except from God and the authorities that exist are instituted by God, um so I just pray and trust that the, authorities that God has instituted or gonna get it right, and I know that that's not always going to work out for me but the world's not really about me the Bible's full of times where it said and God appointed, so-and-so and so-and-so didn't like the Israelites and so he imprisoned them and it's like. Okay then that's you know, it's not all about me it's about what needs to be done and so I'm on the on the side of and that's why I mean I don't know if I've ever point-blank set it on the podcast but that's why I don't vote, it's because I believe that God ordains that leadership he ordains that Authority and it's my duty to pray and then trust that God will do the things that he said he's going to do that he's going to put people in place that, we'll do the things that need to be done and that he's going to move on those people to make policy and have things happen that align with his will for our country and for my life and, you know it causes a lot of arguments when you have that opinion and you have that viewpoint but once again, it's an opinion I'm not I'm not forcing anyone to follow my opinion good Lord Lord knows I could, turn this podcast into just me talking at a camera and then arguing with people online when they disagree with me but instead there's the two of us and we definitely don't agree, on this topic at least. Pastor Newms: [1:02:06] Yeah I mean there's a lot of things we don't and that's okay because that's not the point the point of Christianity is not a set of rules should be a set of rules it's. All right number 24. Pastor Bill: [1:02:25] 24. Every Christian has an obligation to join a local church Eighteen percent strongly agree 90% somewhat agree 8% not sure 19% somewhat agree disagree and 36% strongly disagree I somewhat disagree, because I don't think necessarily it needs to be a local church or a local church organization like I said before, Church doesn't always look like a Sunday morning service or a Wednesday night service or anything like that if we look at Matthew 18. Verse 20 this is Jesus talking he says for where two or three are gathered together in my name I am there among them. Church can be as small as two or three people who are believers coming together, to urge each other to love extravagantly urge each other to love God, take care of Orphans and widows I mean that's all James thought charge was was we should be taking care of Orphans and widows that's Church, that this is simply put that's church if you