Pastor Bill: [0:00] Hello and welcome to season 4 episode 2 of the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian.  I'm Pastor Bill and I'm joined by Pastor Newms.  How are you Pastor Newms?

Pastor Newms: [0:15] I'm good how are you doing.

Pastor Bill: [0:21] I'm doing alright.  My sinuses are all out of whack still, so I've got a lot of drainage and having a lot of issues with that but.  Coughing and what not so I'm on a lot of antihistamines, and some Afrin, and lots of cough drops so.  So how was your week?

Pastor Newms: [0:46] I'm sorry to hear that um is probably the best I can um so.  My week?  My week was okay I worked a lot. , Pastor Bill: [1:09] No I'm sorry to hear that.

Pastor Newms: [1:11] Yeah I worked a lot.  And so that was that was you know it is what it is trying to get, we got a lot of projects and for some reason people are wanting them all done at the end of the year which is odd for software, but it is what it is.  Usually in most software companies December is pretty much non-existent but in this particular healthcare company, we busy.  It's like we're busier than we were two months ago busy, and that's weird for December but you know it is what it is.  So I worked a lot.  I picked up the Pokemon game again and started playing it some, the new Pokemon Scarlet played some Space Engineers.

Pastor Bill: [2:02] Phoenix when could I not see your communications? Phoenix on Twitch says “Can Bill now see my communications?”  Could I not see your Communications before?

Pastor Newms: [2:15] Confused by her question did you say hello and welcome already so no.

Pastor Bill: [2:26] Okay so I saw the nerdy smiley face came through but that just says Fina we 656 raid run teeny-weeny 656 hula.

Pastor Newms: [2:41] Yeah no.  So he can't get emojis correctly because he's looking at it through the Discord interface not the Twitch interface.  So no, Emojis and do not come through.

Pastor Bill: [2:57] So regular smiles like the nerdy smile.

Pastor Newms: [3:01] Well even those sometimes come through because it depends on if Twitch has done something different with them even though they look like a regular smiley face on Twitch side they don't always come across correctly so it was.

Pastor Bill: [3:17] Three celebrating smile faces.

Pastor Newms: [3:19] It was like the birthday ones with the funny hats, so it was good that that you know work was work, I work a lot of hours and then.  I think that was it I don't think I did a lot how was your week?

Pastor Bill: [4:05] My week was all right.  Focused on doing some writing.  Did some flash fiction writing, entered a few writing contest to just sharpen my skills a little bit so that was fun had that going this week and then there was the local Christmas parade was yesterday.  And I don't understand how it can be 50 degrees and feel, literally feel like it's freezing outside while you're sitting there watching a parade that makes no sense to me.  But it did, and my feet were so cold, and my hands were numb, and I was like it's only 50 degrees.

Pastor Newms: [4:55] I'm sorry, I did get asked.  So did I tell the funny story; about the first time we visited this church that we visited a second time on here?

Pastor Bill: [5:16] I don't know did you?

Pastor Newms: [5:17] I don't remember, about the jacket.  I don't think I did okay so you know we talk a lot on The Berean Manifesto that that life is about doing not just…like life should be done, life should not be just hanging out you should actually be doing not just saying that's where I'm trying to go.  Who am I brain I worked a lot of hours you should be doing not just saying and, and so when you go to a church you go to a thing or you do a thing you always hope people are going to show actions more than they're going to say actions so that's always our hope well so we go to visit this church this has been this was the week before we took the vacation to Dollywood so it was the week before the week before Thanksgiving so I don't know the second week of November so it's been several weeks ago in between our visits. And so we, we go and, you know it's like 38-39 right and so everyone is bundled up because they're cold.  I I'm not cold cuz it's only 30s it's not in the 20s it's the 30s it's not that cold we're walking from the car to the place, it's not that cool so, and so I left my jacket in the car because I didn't want to put it on put it off put it on put it up for them but you always take it in the car in case you get a flat tire or something you've changed a tire because if you're out in the rain and.

Pastor Bill: [7:30] Right exactly.

Pastor Newms: [7:32] There's a valid reason to have a jacket with you but I don't wear it when I'm going into the stores and going into play.  And so I left my jacket in the car we went in, and we're in the back of course shocking and we're sitting there and this person comes up to me and genuinely looks at me and goes do you need a coat like, general not like the hat you don't even have a jacket on but like, like actually at he's like if you need a jacket we can get you one like if you're if you're cold if you're you know you can have this jacket right here I've got extras at home blah blah blah and I'm like oh no I'm just not cold and he kind of looked at me like uh huh, and then looked over at Tina and I was like okay sorry, sorry my jackets in the car I don't wear it till it's like in the 20s.  I have a leather jacket I've got sweat shirts at home I've got suit jackets I had my own jackets I just don't wear them oh okay okay we just wanted I wanted to make sure you had a jacket which is amazing from a standpoint of he's legitimately trying to give me the jacket off his back.  First off second off really funny interaction because like you could tell he didn't believe me for schnot like he was like uh-huh I'm sure you don't need a jacket looking at Tina like this man need a jacket you know did you bring this man in with you and he needs it you know and pour Zayidee is like no no.

Pastor Bill: [9:20] Did you find this man out on the street?

Pastor Newms: [9:22] Yeah are you bringing this homeless man in this place and he needs a you know.  And so is this one of those funny moments of you know legitimate church trying to be, what church is supposed to be.  It's a decent it's a decent place we think we're going to try it again we've been twice now and we're going to continue going so far at least for a little while.

Pastor Bill: [9:51] So far so good.

Pastor Newms: [9:53] So far so good yeah we enjoy it so far how was.

Pastor Bill: [9:56] All right well now it's time for.

Pastor Newms: [9:58] We talked about your week.

Pastor Bill: [10:00] We talked about my week so now it's time for getting to know the pastors.

Pastor Newms: [10:02] You know the worst part about this you would think listening to how I've been both last weekend this week in our in our opening you would think like I'm doing a thousand other things, yes someone else did ask today not as forcefully if I needed a jacket, he wasn't as forceful as the other person because he could he was in the he was like the door opener so you'd see in the car I parked in so he assumed I could have gotten one if I won like he at least was that he's like do you have a jacket like are you good luck but like on the same token like.  It's kind of a nice car, that I'm able to lease because my father Biggs is an amazing person and works for Nissan so I'm driving a much nicer car than I would ever be able to normally let's be clear and so I'm like, all right it's it is funny they are they are super they are super nice, is it my card or is it your card, all right I didn't so you're in the part of the screen I can't see cuz you're behind me so I didn't realize you were even holding a card and you were like nope my card and it popped up above my head which is just.

Pastor Bill: [11:28] Would you rather go 30 days without your phone or your entire life without dessert?

Pastor Newms: [11:53] Is it one of those like if I eat a dessert ever I then lose my phone or would I literally not be able to get a dessert ever.

Pastor Bill: [12:04] You have to decide now and then you can literally never get a dessert.

Pastor Newms: [12:08] So if I try to reach for a desert my body would not let me.

Pastor Bill: [12:14] No your hand would just disappear the closer it got to the desert and as you pulled away your hand would reappear.  You can't even touch the desert.

Pastor Newms: [12:23] Can't even touch the desert that's what I - that's the one I want because my waistline, my waistline agrees with that one and that's not because I'm addicted to my phone that's legitimately weight loss right there man if I literally couldn't reach the cookie do you know how happy my daughters would be if I could not eat, or steal their cookies and Candy my daughters would lose their minds if if they did not if there was no chance of me stealing their cookies they would love that and, like I mentioned so would my waistline and my arthritis, I don't eat a lot of sweets but I would love if I couldn't, that would just be.

Pastor Bill: [13:15] I am straight-up addicted to my phone, if I find myself in a room and I've left my phone in the other room I have to go back and find it.

Pastor Newms: [13:24] I'm not addicted to my phone. In most situations there are certain situations.

Pastor Bill: [13:41] When you're going number two.

Pastor Newms: [13:43] Yeah I if I forget my phone I will ask someone to bring it to me you know it's one of those where it’s like.

Pastor Bill: [13:57] I think that's just a given for most people.

Pastor Newms: [13:59] But often for those of you who know me.  I will straight have no idea where my phone is even located.  I'll be like, I don't know, I don't know where it is I don't know I don't know people call me like most of my family members Biggs, Phoenix, you says everyone knows just send him a Discord message he will not see that text message you're about to send him he's not going to see it he's not going to see if he does see it he might he might see it next week and then he's gonna be like I never saw this and then forget to text you back anyway so just don't text him like you're not getting a response and my girls even know that I've got.

Pastor Bill: [14:43] And if you do get a response it'll usually just be “k”.

Pastor Newms: [14:52] That is that's hurtful let me look at this look at this.

Pastor Bill: [15:06] Your sister reinforces what I'm saying in all caps “BILL IS SPOT ON”.

Pastor Newms: [15:13] Okay so no all of mine and Bills messages are actually more my sided than his in all actuality.

Pastor Bill: [15:22] Well because you try to reach out to me on Discord and then you’re like oh yeah he's not always on Discord then you send me a text. And then you’re like hey did you see my Discord or hey I know you're not always on Discord blah.

Pastor Newms: [15:34] I wasn't going to talk about what the message is are but it pretty much is like, hey check the message I sent you how long till you get on are you going to so yeah you're not wrong, yeah and that's true good luck on reading what I send cuz it's going to be misspelled there is no punctuation and its probably not all the words are, even there because I do not do well at.  Making sure stuff is done right.

Pastor Bill: [16:30] My wife has got into the habit of using speech to text let me tell you that's fun to try to decipher. Let me see if I can pull one up right quick so just to give an example here.

Pastor Newms: [16:45] I've heard that can be pretty sideways.

Pastor Bill: [17:07] When was the last time she did that come on.  Printably prinably more than that.  Text so often it's.

Pastor Newms: [17:34] Did you say you text so often you text so little.

Pastor Bill: [17:38] No we take so often that there's a lot of text to go through to find the last time she actually did the voice text thing.

Pastor Newms: [17:46] Ah

Pastor Bill: [17:47] She does it that you really remember is that it comes out bad and then oh my gosh.  All right well I guess I'm not going to be able to find one this time.  I don’t know, I was really hoping to read one because they're really funny yeah.  No just saw a text.  One day I went to the store.  In the morning and I'm at the store and I get a text from Roxanne did you forget about someone?  And I was like no, not that I know of and she goes Finn’s in the restroom and I was like. I'm not even at home sweetheart what do you want me to do about Finnick being in the restroom.  Oh okay so I guess I'll get up and help him. It was funny.  All right well last week, we looked at the beginning of Genesis and talked about how the first 10 chapters of Genesis aren't really Christian texts are not Jewish texts are not Abrahamic text they are simply just historical records right there their the authors, writing down the way they saw history based off of what they believe to happen what the cultures around them saw an influence them to believe, originally it was just chapters 2 through 10 right but the numbers didn't exist anyway back then.  The text of chapter one was added later when they were in Babylon and we went through Genesis chapters - I'm sorry through Genesis chapter 1 and verses, one and two that's pretty much as far as we got. Um and so that episode was in the beginning, now this episode season 4 episode 2 is also in the beginning, and for this episode we're actually going to be in John.  We’re going to be looking at John chapter 1 and we're going to be going through John chapter 1 verses 1 through 4 okay.  Now in the CSB this reads, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning, all things were created through him and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.  In him was life and that life was the light of men.  Okay, all right.  So that word beginning where that phrase in the beginning. This is the Greek ar-khay' and, I'm much better on my Hebrew pronunciations.  So if you know these Greek words and I butcher their pronunciations when I'm trying to read the pronunciation little key things that spells it funny to try to get you pronounce it correctly, I apologize our ar-khay'.  It’s G746 It is (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.  Okay so if John was speaking abstractly right if he was saying, according to the myth according to the stories that have been passed down that we don't we don't really think they're real we just think they're you know good lessons to learn from. Then that would have been the general use of the word and he simply meant beginning in reference to time.  But if John's intention was to communicate the beginning as in the concrete idea that there was. At one point nothing that had been created then this the beginning, is like the building and putting in the cornerstone or like creating the foundational thesis of an organization. Basically that statement that is everything the organization stands for, if that's what he was talking about then the usage here is more like the word that we found for beginning in Genesis.  This has John saying the first important thing to happen right so he's not just saying, kind of loosely you know oh yeah back back back then when things started happening you know nothing was happening and things started happening, no John's saying.  This is this is the most important thing this will starting here because it that's how important is this is the beginning. And in context we can reasonably assume that he's using the word that way and expressing that concrete usage. What did I put in my nose.  Yeah we have that reasonable belief that that's where he's coming from, because of the way he continues to talk about it and reference it and go back to it as he continues to write and he's talking about this this Cornerstone idea, this is very very important thing that is crucial to everything that he's about to write that's crucial to, the understanding of everything right okay sorry my mouth is feeling all weird right now. You know when you get dry mouth.  And then you put dentures in your mouth while your mouth while you have dry mouth.

Pastor Newms: [25:38] See now you've lost me because I've never had to put dentures in my mouth.

Pastor Bill: [25:43] It's it's quite the experience.  So the next word that we need to look at is actually what they translated as word okay, so word is G30 five sticks in the Strong's and it is the word logos.  Okay so logos and I'm going to read off the translation are as strong as to find it something said including the thought, by implication a topic subject of discourse, also reasoning the mental faculty or motive, by extension a computation specifically with the article in John the Divine expression that is Christ.  And then it goes on to list off all the things that's been translated as account caused communication, concerning something Doctrine feign having to do something intent matter mouth preaching question reason reckon something removed, say saying show Beaker of something. Speech talk thing none of these things move me tidings Treatise utterance word work okay.  Now one of the things that we saw last week when we were talking about the creation was.  That they're at the very beginning this wasn't a spoken project yet right, God or more properly they used the word for God's or Divine beings.  Personally cultivated and formed the universe the long way, so in this instance the choice to translate logos. As word is believed to have been a side effect of Western theology. That place is the focus on individuals instead of the group, right so I got this from from several different commentaries where was talking about this and then I found some websites that were backing it up. That when they were translating this out and they were trying to decide how exactly to translate that logos there this is this is the ideas that they were coming up against is that, the Viewpoint of that Western philosophy, and when we say Western philosophy were talking about anything west of Israel right, so we're talking about Italy and England United States all of that is west of Israel that's Western theology.  So this trends like really this translation reinforces this authority of scripture. Over the relationship of the community, what it's talking about and it props up that control of those who can translate those scriptures.  So it gives this idea of the individual leader Leading the People, instead of the community as a whole owning the revelation.  The word word ends up not even being what most commentaries that will release the most ones that I have I'm currently read from 1 2 3 4 5 6, great commentaries that's my a sword up here on my screen a commentaries most of them agree that word isn't even the right translation there for the context so.  Let's talk about that in the context of the day, John was having to create craft his writing for the Greek reader the Jew reader the Christian reader and also the Gnostic Christians, now the Gnostic Christians were a huge threat to, the survivability of the church the Greeks were not so much a threat to survival of survivability of the church because they were kind of keeping their hands off, jail it was you know it was kind of tricky you if you. Talked about worshiping a god other than one of the Greek gods, you could get in trouble depending on what God was walking by but usually, it was it was just kind of a you shouldn't be doing that but doesn't the Jews that was a big issue you didn't want a Jewish person walking by and hearing you talk about worshiping Jesus. And that you know because I was an issue so this is kind of the.

Pastor Newms: [31:10] Way of way of I don't know.

Pastor Bill: [31:14] Life I don't the temperature that atmosphere.

Pastor Newms: [31:16] Yeah trying to trying to tippy-toe around things.

Pastor Bill: [31:23] So this word logos, John was not only identifying Jesus as a manifestation of God right but refuting the Gnostic claim, that Jesus was a separate God created by the Demiurge. Now the Demiurge was an evil God that made all of creation that the Gnostic Christians believed in, they believe the Demiurge created creation and it was for evil design and that Jesus was a separate God created by the Demiurge who then basically rebelled against the evil God, and brought us salvation from the demiurge and it's this whole thing and it was it was bad.  So now for the Greeks using the word logos and Theo's.  Theos being the word here for God, and the common word in Greek for a god so Zeus they would use the same word Aphrodite Artemis it was all feels right, but using logos and Theo's in in reference to each other stood in direct contrast to how the people of the day would have talked about their god. they would have said moothos and theos, which was customary when telling stories about the gods moothos becoming the word mythos or myth as we know it today.  The Greeks were very open about the fact that all the stories they had about their gods were all myths, they had made them up. Two, surround the gods with intrigue to surround the gods with attention they didn't think the gods didn't exist but they understood and recognized the things they were saying about the gods and the stories they were telling about the gods were things that they had made up, so they would say moothos in reference to theos and here John is saying logos in reference to theos instead of saying, well this is a story that I'm making up this is a story that's been made up, he's attaching an air of well this is actually what happened to it for the Greek reader.  So most likely what most of the commentaries say is that John intended logos to mean plan, purpose promise or my favorite – motive.  So the general idea is that that shouldn't have been the word “word” at all should have been plan, purpose, promise, or motive.  Motive to me seems to make the most sense in modern vernacular right?  The way we talk now it seems to make the most sense when you're reading all of John chapter 1, as to.  What you're looking at and what is going on so when we look at John 1:1 we see of all the things to know about the beginning of all things.  There was the Motive and the Motive was with God and the Motive was God.  Or more specifically was there should be existed as, that's the next word we're looking at.  The word was and it is ane like I said my Greek pronunciations are lacking its G 2258.  And the translation there is I (thou, etc.) was (wast or were): and it has been translated as - + agree, be, X have (+ charge of), hold, use, was (-t), were.  So today when we use the word was.  It's a word that can mean at one time, but then not anymore right it's like I was hungry but that was resolved I'm not hungry anymore.  That kind of usage of the word didn't actually exist when John wrote this when you use the word that word their lust was it meant existed as so the motive existed as God so God was the motive manifest.  Everything that God was is this motive this this thing that they've been translated as the word, word.  Okay, alright verse to you got any questions about verse one yet or any comments you want to make.

Pastor Newms: [36:57] I think I don't think I have anything, the was I get it. I think we've talked about it in the past but yeah it's pretty common stuff we've talked about a couple times but it's always great to review.

Pastor Bill: [37:18] And the main reason that we're going from Genesis 1:1 to now John chapter 1, because not only because they both deal with the beginning but we also want to… we touched lightly on, the people that think that the reason that God is plural in the creation in Genesis is because of the Trinity.  And then we don't want to Discount that belief because obviously the New Testament supports that idea, right and so we explored the idea that, that word can mean Divine beings it can mean the Angels were helping it can, it can mean a lot of things, it's important then to go and follow that up with well there was this idea and the early church and John wrote about it, that Jesus was there with, the Supreme Divinity at the beginning.  So it's not just this trinitarian idea separate from anything else in the Bible, it's actually supported by the beliefs of the first century church that you know Jesus was a part of that they. A part of that them part of that plural usage of the word in the beginning, and then we see that in verse 2 right, He was with God in the beginning now, this is the first hint that John's given us that he views the motive or the word as a person.  Now the word for he that John uses isn't specifically he.  Unless you place your own interpretation on it.  I believe the word he was chosen as a translation for that because it becomes cleared later in the chapter that John is talking about Jesus who was a male.  However, I think John was still trying to tease the reader, at this point he was still crafting you know… and I don't think he would have he meant he at this time I think this word isn't.  Isn't necessarily A he.  It says including the nominative, masculine plural second form nominative feminine singular third form and the nominative feminine plural fourth form, so it's not specifically he but in the modern the way we talk about gender in the modern day and time it would have been they or them, so they were in the beginning with God.  This is why in the King James. I think they chose ‘the same’ as the translation for the word he that the csb calls he. It's because it's not specifically he its they or them or this or that it's it's non gender-specific it can be used for gender, but only if the writer has already made it clear what gender they're talking about.  John hadn't yet so they were with God, and then we get that in the beginning part right. As a crucial part of the first of all things they were with God as a crucial part of the first of all things. Verse 3 all things were created through him and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.  That verse just really I don't like the phrasing sometimes, one more trying to read Bible verses because they feel so convoluted like if you would have just just, maybe swap that around and rephrase that just a little bit so I just wanted to try to rephrase that for myself. And what I came up with was the universe and everything in it, was created because of him and if he hadn't existed nothing else would either.  And I feel like that's a much better way to say the same thing that they're actually trying to say. And you can go back and reread that virtue for yourself if you want you can try to flip it around with the punctuation is there and try to make sense of that for yourself, but I think the idea there is you know. All things were created through him it's, it's because of him, it's using that motive that motive is why all things were created, and if it hadn't been for that motive if it hadn't had been that driving force then we wouldn't have had creation at all.  God would just be still chilling in The Ether just out there just because through his motive wouldn't have existed to fuel creation.

Pastor Newms: [43:13] And, and I see where you're saying with that to me it works I'm like.  No, no it's just all things were created through him and apart from him not one thing that was created, that has been created so apart from him nothing was created nothing would have been created that has it that had been created I mean it's, sometimes having a broken brain makes things make sense because I'm looking at it going why wouldn't that make sense.

Pastor Bill: [43:50] Mmm and then when you, when you look at it from a gnostic point of view right because he's got to write for this Gnostic audience as well, they believed that Jesus was created.  And so this idea that nothing would have been created without him.  Undermines the idea that he was created because you can't be created.  Because you exist because you don't exist to then create yourself.

Pastor Newms: [44:25] And I think that's the reason why it's worded the way it's worded that apart from.

Pastor Bill: [44:30] Weird logical flaw and he's pointing out.

Pastor Newms: [44:32] One thing yeah not one thing was created that has been created including him so.

Pastor Bill: [44:41] Including him because he's not a creation.

Pastor Newms: [44:43] As I'm writing this, I'm realizing what you're about to say so I'm going to add this part here at the end that some people will just go duh and other people will go oh okay I'm wrong.

Pastor Bill: [45:03] Okay now we're in verse 4 and this is as far as we're going to go tonight, in him was life and that life was the light of men man, I went back and forth on these words, back and forth and back and forth over and over and over and over and over and I I've had my suspicions as to what I was looking at, and I can't seem to. I can't seem to really pin it down what I actually think John is trying to say here so I went to my commentaries, and I was just like I'm gonna I'm just going to write down what the commentaries are saying. And they pretty much all seem to agree see what was the outlier it was.  The Keel and delitzsch had nothing to say about it and I think the FB Meyer thought differently but um.  It basically John was saw his talking about sentience and Enlightenment that all of that came from the motive right so that.  Basically, that spark that separates humanity from animals that ability that sentient ability to go I recognize that I exist and I have to have a purpose and so I'm going to improve my life and the world around me.  That that is only exist because. Of the that life that is the motive that that life created that that spark of sentience in.  Then as we see later in John 1:14 you know we find out that the motive is made flesh, and that's why he's in fact Jesus.  So all this time he has actually in fact been talking about Jesus because he believed that Jesus had been God before he was born, and that he was there in the beginning he was part of the creation that he existed as God as part of God, and so yeah so.  When you, when you try to look at Concepts like the Trinity and you try to poke at you know poke holes and go but it doesn't seem to fit here and it doesn't seem to fit here and it doesn't seem to fit here.  You're not wrong and you're not wrong mainly for the reason that of all the things that there is to know in the universe about God. The Bible.  Already but I didn't so of all the things there is to know about God in the universe which is the universe length in you know in length what we know about God is only this much of it.  This much of a whole universe was worth of knowledge. So yeah, when we when we see Concepts like, in the beginning was the motive and was with God in the motive was God and so John is trying to tell you that, God and you know God the father and God the son the same person and then we find out that Jesus goes to the father and sends the Holy Spirit, who is also in full agreement for agreement meaning you know he's also the same person, and then we try to build theologies that we understand like the Trinity with such limited knowledge.  There's gonna be holes there is and that's where faith comes into play, we don't know everything because without faith it is impossible to please God and if we knew everything if we had all the information we wouldn't have to have faith and then we wouldn't be able to please God and then this whole simulation of physical life to create souls worthy of Eternity with God would fail.  That's what I have to say about that.

Pastor Newms: [49:45] And that's, that's that whole thing we've talked about it before but the whole thing around if we don't have faith we don't have, our belief system and so not everything can be answered easily. Because faith and.

Pastor Bill: [50:25] If you if you, you know what is the purpose of life well if you look at the writings of Paul and Peter and John even the purpose of life is to learn faith.  That's the whole purpose of the time that we're on Earth is to learn it's a finite time to learn a concept. A mind-blowing concept and to always be this show me where I won't believe it. That's kind of the opposite of Faith you know it's like I know you know Thomas wanted to see the holes in Jesus hands in the whole inside and Thomas gets a bad rap for that.  But the other disciples had already asked to see the same thing when Jesus first appeared to them, they asked you know to see tip the hold man on the holding the side and understandably three days earlier they saw this guy.  Brutalized hanging on a cross.  So yeah obviously they want you know they want to get that closure right.  But without faith it's impossible to please God and so whole point of life.  Is to learn faith and then you know we love others while they're learning Faith because life is hard enough you don't need to make it harder. Cut a guy some slack, show some love.  There you go that is “Also in the beginning season 4 episode 2” did you have anything else you wanted to tag onto their Pastor Newms.

Pastor Newms: [52:30] No it's this is one of those conversations where it's to me it's pretty cut and dry like it's not a lot of extra frivolous.  Wells butts if could zits just kind of like yeah it's written that way that's his that's exactly what it says.

Pastor Bill: [53:04] It's written that way that's what is it.

Pastor Newms: [53:05] Let's see what it says.

Pastor Bill: [53:09] All right so the Berean Manifesto comes out every Wednesday night at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time wherever you get your podcasts, if you've enjoyed this podcast so you think it might help someone else feel free to forward it share it like it follow us that helps other people find the podcasts and be able to get the message that we're trying to spread, Faith, Hope, and Love for the modern Christian, also we record this live on Sunday nights at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard Time and you can go to our web site www.ekk.house, to find out which which Twitch Facebook and which YouTube, Channel you can go to on Sunday nights to join us live and you can actually participate in the chat you can type your message your question whatever, and it comes through on our Discord server and it comes through so that we can respond to you answer your questions and you can be a part, of the conversation instead of just me and Pastor newms having a two-person conversation we can get some more enrichment in here and we welcome that we welcome people coming in and asking questions and you know saying things like well I've always been taught that it meant this and why did is it why do you say it means that and so we can actually you know because. I can assume that you're on the same page as I am on but that doesn't mean you are and so sometimes we have to flush things out and.  Additionally, I'm not always right so sometimes you'll bring something up and I'll go hold on, oh yeah that's right I was saying it wrong you're right and then you know that way I can fix it because I do my best you know to prepare but that doesn't mean I'm not going to miss something.  I'm always right but sometimes I'm wrong.

Pastor Newms: [55:15] I'm always right but sometimes I can learn more all right and now's when we do the Final End thing.

Pastor Bill: [55:27] Yes so I love you guys

Pastor Newms: Be safe out there.

Pastor Bill: And until next time.